From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:27:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <831qdlpoye.fsf@gnu.org> <83jzraki0g.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31618"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 26 04:28:33 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvq6q-0007zV-Av for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 04:28:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvq5x-0000Q1-1n; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:27:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvq5v-0000ON-9T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:27:35 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvq5t-0007al-Oj; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:27:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=nnw4owrJyRYivlmtBNx/OU9hN3ro85aDkQxGDKKl91Q=; b=FCXMq60yOSqm BRFmNkExJbveJqrELz1KN8EXZNXpoQ+DH4iAI3LdagCp4IcsgtRWJ2pEa6NOk7sciAlQIpdEpq5/G ssya34khv2N/jYIrVJVTwmttU1r5rDIf10P1B3bQJ9uUtcX7CdoqbqEJI5FZWZkjsiiIIyH5FTio6 KlCRvMj+U2d0UCQ5gUAnGA7nvLi8bC9bZUvbclc1z1gybMvL/OhAbz5jwOcMOTfJlcS6J3Xqwuufp eqx5jScok78pQJ3Vx6G5DOGJHF8BmmbHCLqCGPAhp8Moe/NulziEh1PV0Lj/EfOe0DWYDf3c+VpWz lva9jlmDEXtyobkwKeWoIg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvq5s-0003LC-O6; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:27:33 -0400 In-Reply-To: <83jzraki0g.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:23:43 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311874 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] What's wrong with using cl-lib in many files, for example abbrev.el ad debug.el, is that each one is a step towards making Emacs depend pervasively on cl-lib. With each step in that direction, it becomes gradually harder and harder to work on Emacs at all without being familiar with the CL functions. That general dependence is the problem I want to prevent. So I've decided to start fixing some of those files not to use the run-time CL features.. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)