From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:17 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83pmd9ssp7.fsf@gnu.org> <831qf8yj2l.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5twwmaq.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8401"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 11 02:41:17 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUzN-00021q-4R for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 Sep 2023 02:41:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUz6-0000hU-Gm; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:41:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUz5-0000am-Dm for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUz5-0002Be-5b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUz8-0005o7-EA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:41:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.169439283222268 (code B ref 59609); Mon, 11 Sep 2023 00:41:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Sep 2023 00:40:32 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51589 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUye-0005n5-1T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55592) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyZ-0005mo-Ay for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:30 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyP-00024C-Sc; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=Op2sgCVD+2poeN/5H/FRQpAN9c8cPVw9PtcgrX7lGzI=; b=RhTq3Zpxm9FS FtT5OS03837HwOb4B/aEusz6D5QljOXIOkMFImz7TU62VbXrXAvxhgy0MHdSTqRcbNy9SWWgJJG+G r71Y1asYHMSHjgUS4ER32E64JbTteTWPi02Ul2g039Yo18wWwpC0ZcGWz2F+HonhtkdEBtjoczjlF 8iWHWoVyu5WUlJr0R+awYwCIBTA13KohPOlSlchj7KyDcC1ajEfT0krK1MnkJ7izhvwTFe9fUkHuW uiB+dg9skdkU8aTMWHB1xDjmkKXek9sVgxfwGXfUeJiLamarexE4MKzFI8SeIc/FK9epJEzhp7Zsh fA59CtXHR3w2HTx2iSgLkQ==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qfUyP-0006Tl-I2; Sun, 10 Sep 2023 20:40:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:270016 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Only because we decide not to do that, or are lazy, or whatever. > > Basically, it's our decision for GNU ELPA, and not so for NonGNU ELPA. > We have just as much control in one as in the other, in practice. Does "have" here stand for "exercise"? I think so. With GNU ELPA packages, in principle we can make the changes we wish. However, for several reasons, we normally let the package developers alone, except when there is an important reason to do otherwise, which is rare. When it makes sense for them to work independently, it is better that they do. It's the same for packages in core Emacs, those that have specific developers. We likewise let them do their work on their own as much as possible. However, it's different for NonGNU ELPA packages. We would not want to do more on them than fix small instances of bit-rot or simple failures to fit into Emacs, even if the package becomes unmaintained. Beyond that is not our responsibility. If in practice we get involved in most of the packages that are part of Emacs so rarely that it doesn't look very different from NonGNU ELPA, that means we are doing well -- but that doesn't change the fact that those categories are different in principle. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)