From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:10:00 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4724"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ahyatt@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jim Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 04:10:10 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX8M-00010O-7N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:10:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX8F-0000ki-4z; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:10:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX8C-0000k4-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:10:00 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX8C-0006yM-Ko; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:10:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=wrj2lVOlYMhn8qEq+dkpb9nC9EeZ1a5iYhK/ZjIsTYM=; b=UG+9Hl+jBQQB hgiszVZvfgxaiiYvNIVMdAaV+XIW7tx6IWMPaIFwI38xDKg4tEjXcyIRpGcQdD/OuQcZzqJA8XPnu oG+M6Hbu49fSjBCCZNDCOZzvKIrmc0D5PkdnV3qMSSFQ6d4ev7/RWT44t4Cve7n0feE0/xUWwtRg0 5HxsZ5enUTo5sD7V29vGyQ6AmNlIRFIwYI0n1mk2HamhW5Dat3XmlrCt81matfsXWTGB75n7nhPMF d7LOWndT2o6fORJ2W8mFf7+ZW/JZ82R7sRwPu/puQT3FiFaGmodOMo0X2ccG2iREc6w5w6HubsNm1 O0m+gDv0vcu4fjTNveTtZQ==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX8C-0004EP-3M; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:10:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Jim Porter on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 19:59:15 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309582 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > As for the docstring, I see that many models use ordinary software > licenses, such as the Apache license. That could make it easier for us > to define the criteria for a libre provider: is the model used by the > provider available under a license the FSF considers a free software > license In general, an LLM system consists of two parts: the engine, which is a program written in a programming language, and the trained neural network. For the system to be free, both parts must be free. A number of engines are free software, but it is unusual for a trained neural network to be free. I think that "model" refers to the trained neural network. That's how models are implemented. To figure out whether a program is free by scanning it is hard to do reliably. That is why for LibreJS we designed a more precise method for indicating licenses on parts of a file. I recommend against trying to do this. It should not be a lot of work for a human to check this and get a reliable result. That applies to LLM systems that you download and run on your own machine. As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different issue entirely. They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute), and SaaSS is always unjust. See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html for explanation. So if you contact it over the internet, it should get a warning with a reference to that page. Maybe there is no need need to pass info about the terms of service. Only a service can impose terms of service, and the mere fact that it is a service, rather than a program to download and run, inherently means the user does not control its operation. That by itself is reason for a notice that it is bad. Any restrictions imposed by terms of service could add to the bad. Perhaps it would be good to mention that that second injustice exists. Maybe it would be good to say, This language model treats users unjustly because it does the user's computing on a computer where the user has no control over its operation. It is "Service as a Software Substitute", as we call it. See https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html. In addition, it imposes "terms of service", restrictions over what users can do with the system. That is a second injustice. If society needs to restrict some of the uses of language model systems, it should do so by democratically passing laws to penalize those actions -- regardless of how they are done -- and not by allowing companies to impose restrictions arbitrarily on users. The laws would be more effective at achieving the goal, as weil as avoidng giving anyone unjust power over others. I think that it is better to present the URL of the web site's front page rather than the terms of service themselves. If we point the user at the terms of service, we are directly helping the company impose them. If the user visits the front page, perse can easily find the terms of service. But we will not have directly promoted attention to them. This is a compromise between two flaws. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)