From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:09:09 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> <8735cgot9x.fsf@gnu.org> <83leq7naql.fsf@gnu.org> <86o7v3ryan.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn9qfyv6.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zy63u3.fsf@localhost> <87h70ufwr1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j48eg9.fsf@localhost> <83ttsw2oeb.fsf@gnu.org> <87lee889ta.fsf@localhost> <87cyzcwtbc.fsf@bzg.fr> <87il93xzku.fsf@bzg.fr> <87ttsn2boj.fsf@posteo.net> <87ledyw06f.fsf@localhost> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2101"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 31 04:09:35 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX7m-0000K5-B8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Aug 2023 04:09:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX7Q-00080j-4j; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:09:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX7O-00080L-7t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:09:10 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX7N-0006n7-SO; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:09:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=DlbNPvmpEDuKbVpIEMzFW3v/FsQY0q31X+zJJxZ6NFY=; b=bjqM2Gc/4xHf 20HZyjVmVN/UIUa+go6EThaVTfj5JMQGVJlTZxYQBJiGo6nqezZKyZY4ZbeLdOcF389vSHCX4qeJJ bOM926DW+k/pn/W5RnQiXVZd9dLUHSE+xE0HHAAacLCH0dfM4QWiWwo+vmyAFB07RoxxDJKY4gGzP FOHGU76z5MK15a1KDNsOBdXK+rsxf/H3igd9+HF8OW7/d5DKgF5JETA6CGir2pX874AjlPOjox4Pk KN1McW3kiJuKW3yA/UlACl97TBHvYN06JbzTXIugtv3ku+PpUMXySbBZFrBXxlgKXsgRhI5WvmXZR CsHOsLv/UKEGuH/8jtYmyg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbX7N-0003yr-JJ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 22:09:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ledyw06f.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:46:48 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309580 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > It is not export backend fault per se - Org markup simply does not > define specialized markups more granular than ~code~. > So, users have to use macros like {{{kbd(C-c SPC)}}} that expands to > direct texinfo export snippet ... That source construct might be acceptable, though it has 6 extra characters and that would be rather inconvenient. Could you manage to reduce the number of them? Could you explain what is implied/presumed by "direct texinfo export"? Are you saying that Org would be a front-end for Texinfo, for all output formats? I'd hope it could generate Info files and HTML directly. > Though we do not provide similar macros for @var/@env/etc. We might. They are very often used. To make org adequate as a replacement for Texinfo, they would have to be predefined. (It is ok if the file has to specify loading some extension to define them.) > Or we might allow custom inline special markup as I suggested in > https://orgmode.org/list/87bkqx4jyg.fsf@localhost I skimmed that long message but I couldn't see any suggestion about @var, @env, etc. Could you please send me the actual proposal, by itself, rather than an indirection to it? > On the other hand, Org provides a powerful citation syntax > [cite:see @citation-key], which may be also utilized if we support > info files as bibliography source. This will be a superset of what > @xref/@ref/@pxref does as cite/variant is an equivalent of \autocite in > LaTeX. If that is smarter than the current Texinfo commands and can replace them with no loss of flexibility and capability, that would be fine. Provided it handles all output formats correctly. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)