From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:06:14 -0400 Message-ID: References: <54c21d90-8bd6-8723-9e33-d69179b37bd0@gmail.com> <705ab838-142a-b3cc-8cc8-6f4d143c4341@gmail.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14112"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: danflscr@gmail.com, ahyatt@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jim Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 03:06:53 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qYFrB-0003VE-Id for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2023 03:06:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qYFqb-0003sM-G2; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:06:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qYFqZ-0003s7-F7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:06:15 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qYFqZ-0007M6-2g; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:06:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=EOPkxLfQtFp64lvhXhMHrWXdfTnZ5nfjWPFWNEWImSQ=; b=fOCRkHXFEE5F ulvp9NSWcXyAKFPXGSLKbOsWGGo3tted0mj5HakXhsOifaJFNHIJeOxF49yCiQrsiDCpz7JHgDNJo SapMMGtyBSVN5QD8fJax0ZlQ5JuOo68f8y5YsE+KaJkSTYdCIhXxLWD5J09RuhbdyaJMGRfUEhlSp ZpggmVAULnK6QppweGTpFDdKeK5p6Hwn8N9ArYuzyVPi6zaoMCkFD4j6/wnCmEjn6P5usdBOS65zS NR23uUQzKDqHWEBjh972F35z7SShPo74zIL7YWcYB3TYzwaJ7BGUCCEH8uMyeQmhwwACciZmXpJhn FsyHXRvlplaqioO2uM+kRw==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qYFqY-0002Ac-Mr; Mon, 21 Aug 2023 21:06:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <705ab838-142a-b3cc-8cc8-6f4d143c4341@gmail.com> (message from Jim Porter on Sun, 20 Aug 2023 21:48:06 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309096 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > While I certainly appreciate the effort people are making to produce > LLMs that are more open than OpenAI (a low bar), I'm not sure if > providing several gigabytes of model weights in binary format is really > providing the *source*. It's true that you can still edit these models > in a sense by fine-tuning them, but you could say the same thing about a > project that only provided the generated output from GNU Bison, instead > of the original input to Bison. I don't think that is valid. Bison processing is very different from training a neural net. Incremental retraining of a trained neural net is the same kind of processing as the original training -- except that you use other data and it produces a neural net that is trained differently. My conclusiuon is that the trained neural net is effectively a kind of source code. So we don't need to demand the "original training data" as part of a package's source code. That data does not have to be free, published, or available. > In practice though, I think if Emacs were to support communicating with > LLMs, it would be good if - at minimum - we could direct users to an > essay explaining the potential ethical/freedom issues with them. I agree, in principle. But it needs to be an article that the GNU Project can endorse. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)