From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#59609: 29.0.50; [PATCH] Better advertise (Non-)GNU ELPA in emacs manual Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:46 -0500 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14312"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 59609@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 14 23:21:25 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7x-0003Re-Br for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 23:21:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7c-00035g-5a; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:21:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7b-000359-C1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:21:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7b-0003f5-4D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:21:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7a-0001PY-HJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:21:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 59609 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 59609-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B59609.16710564565395 (code B ref 59609); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 22:21:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 59609) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2022 22:20:56 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41951 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7T-0001Ox-IT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47342) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7R-0001Or-Em for 59609@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:53 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7L-0003Ry-HV; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=dXnLixyzTGWjtVHAf2qE5HFpjh4Ec4w5+O7Xz5Akgis=; b=KZ8vYsD1VJYv tXUpZgvZCkej1BD+wAnsrBe0Q43rYUwxDPSrLab3k6M8++FwINxgfF5296pIyQ4QT3ukFj2/UrBNU FdxpBv9yPxC6C06sOMMqiaf708dJl5I7+dZSdmYctFClHkCul+VS61GMPDVZ22zeo/nFLUjkDPczF SnRYJTR/Z84Ooh9bBr5uqa0etCmYUpNUJ3hyrTnyVlrsOochMGdTrMXs+Pty3a5idwMpfA/FCRekd 8A+23RDXSgjzHQsi2Ea4Aszrb3A9EPbNr7GY9BPmPiOxUT5OkPwAqbW4a6wCwsz38WzsSJ4UxME/S fcGGo73ds8v/ELHvxEM0cg==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5a7K-0003xf-5n; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:20:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 3 Dec 2022 16:00:41 -0800) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:251007 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I was asked this very specific question as part of a discussion of the difference between NonGNU ELPA and GNU ELPA: > > > I see no risk that the packages will suddenly go away. Under what > > > circumstances would that happen? > > Here is how I responded to that one question: > > Here are two ways I can envision. > > > > If somehow the developers are no longer working on it in a way > > we can use. > > > > If it rots and needs substantial change and the developers > > are not interested in doing that. You replied to that response, taking that question out of context: > I'm positive that these things can and will happen, but that's true also > for GNU ELPA and parts of Emacs itself (see lisp/obsolete/*.el). That is true, but because it out of context, it appears to have implications which it does not have. When packages in the Emacs core go unmaintained, but they are still useful, we roll up our sleeves and maintain them. And we will try to do that for GNU ELPA too, because they too are part of Emacs. The point is that NonGNU ELPA packages have lower priority, so if they become unmaintained, we might rather delete them than fix them. Obsolete packages are a different thing. We mark a package obsolete when we think it is _better_ not to maintain it much. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)