From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 3d38d1d: Add sqlite3 support to Emacs Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2021 00:15:22 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20211211035614.15517.53830@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20211211035616.984DD20A0A@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87ee6j4ty4.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735mz4o70.fsf@yahoo.com> <83k0gbr0dm.fsf@gnu.org> <87y24r33bn.fsf@yahoo.com> <87ilvu1ldh.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a6h5tap6.fsf@gnus.org> <87tufbu7jg.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y24nr6nk.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf0ntz0t.fsf@yahoo.com> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38964"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 15 06:19:36 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mxMhT-0009vn-Sz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2021 06:19:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34814 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxMhS-0003YW-J0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2021 00:19:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54126) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxMdQ-0006yY-0M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2021 00:15:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=38132 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxMdP-0002zW-Ir; Wed, 15 Dec 2021 00:15:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=+6GkmAFYWjrvmz6lVXB7YujLhsBXkmbujf4hmdxp/6M=; b=hBffU9K4ePPZ cBoMazoGOiZx3TXKSBz52QZQoITr+qm0p4Ny7pgFceh7ZRFkytPmcCqYQMCvm/QKY2JORW+FiyMzA fcT0oYIb3sL6OL1l0e6NkA/q7sw05Mh6fwnSxWtdcmmgKpyF/CHw27kO1+TubwkxJ27pXHI8O9Cy5 WNdSWlDjbck3+3HZpNoX5WlCIMXkBZpOeBwFM5vFKR18kMkrWVtR7KGvCanlZl1f2MouN51U2T5cr RzaAQ1kbUmdGWzQCuCqAvJrGm6l8Ovha5yBvdUTA+ip3+++Z0/n2jebsxU0PYdfoIiqX++mfKkacq E4TXwAD2iY8sXB54Z/ycTQ==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxMdO-0007tt-71; Wed, 15 Dec 2021 00:15:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87lf0ntz0t.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Tue, 14 Dec 2021 15:40:34 +0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281975 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > IANAL, but I think it would be safer to avoid the legal complications of > that by removing it immediately, until the relevant lawyers find a > solution. You have the right basic approach to this problem. The problem is grave and hard; we don't know whether there is an adequate solution. We won't know unless/until we find one. While a feature is in that state of doubt, it should not be included. We should install it if and when we know it is correct to do so. Installing it prematurely is unwise, so we need to de-install it. I want to correct one detail. This is not a legal problem, it's a moral problem. There is no "answer" that lawyers could tell us that would fix it. We have discussed technical solutions that could make dynamic loading of modules morally ok, but implementing them seems like a hassle. It looks like few users will use them anyway, which would imply that implementing a solution is not worth the trouble. If we confirm that, it will follows that the right thing to do is to keep dynamic loading of sqlite3 modules completely off in Emacs. It seems that's easy. Unless/until we know that it is ok to give Emacs the dynamic sqlite3 module feature, we should not install it. Po Lu, would you please remove that feature (disable that code)? If we do find later that it is ok to enable that feature, it won't be hard to install it then. Lars is right that there are always ways for users do modify a free program to do whatever they wish. That's the nature of free software. That's how things should be. So if we were trying to make it _impossible_ for users to modify Emacs to run with a nonfree dynamically loaded sqlite3 module, that would be futile -- and wrong. As developers of a free program, we can't _stop_ users from modifying it to do whatever they wish, and we don't want to try. Which is why this issue is not about "stopping" users from making such modifications, or whether we can "stop" them. Those questions are distractions. This question is about what Emacs _as we distribute it_ does, and what it should do. Unless we find a way to make the sqlite3 dynamical module capability ok, we should not implement that capability. Po Lu, would you please turn off that sqlite3 dynamical module capability? Lars metioned something called LD_PRELOAD. I don't know what that is, and I can't find it in the documentation I have here. I don't know whether it makes a difference for this issue, and I would like to study that question. Would someone please point me at an explanation of what LD_PRELOAD does, with docs for how to use it? Also, which part of the GNU/Linux system implements it? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)