From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Round-tripping key definitions Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 23:06:38 -0500 Message-ID: References: <875yswtzxh.fsf@gnus.org> <87o86ohzyv.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39838"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 16 05:08:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mmpln-000AAd-Kd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 05:08:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58810 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmplm-0000UM-Dy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 23:08:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52158) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmpk0-0006DH-C2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 23:06:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=60118 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmpjz-0007sA-8b; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 23:06:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=1wyXxbWq2bf5pVdEoD9MLMWfNVIMLNNm1vLTazPlH0c=; b=elp7DFL++1uG Vk5UYA4nrbeSx7FIyN0jV0+MdTzPtGW7rgG7JGNwWnYZXNXYuD+yUfRYOhJVcVg3ZDcy8TVltk7fk 3nEvWRAx44+TIWiEZPAQVq/Nrqg8CLoEx88aej5gLoGhSPUPSBUs9DD9icnJOPCM5hBJ18pnY4LjY 2NMo7HjHLHWL8IhBWKaYpo8B4DdcdPndfDSVw9m2v2Ub+fVSSJS30hj/BFh6jazG1tHM3gXRIJAMx zN3pG85JaelRmtvzrAAlYqrjA1d8jTrVfC88cVBGQjHzzxULnkJkMy7HhTCynoFquGISbCkljmT0H 9kbLtoqwNNuiZnLrA4qmlQ==; Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmpjy-0007x6-Vp; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 23:06:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 14 Nov 2021 09:27:02 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:279532 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Then again, maybe we'd want to finally get rid of the conflation between > "control modifier + key" and "ASCII control char". But that's harder > (because it affects ELisp source code, where `?\C-i` is 9 rather than > #x4000069, I think the crucial requirement is that these are two different character codes, but programs want to treat them as equivalent and bind them both with one binding. so either we keep `?\C-i` as 9 and introduce a new syntax > for "character i with a control modifier", or we change the value and > risk breaking some programs (tho maybe we can auto-fix the vast > majority with appropriate heuristics)). That would break a lot of old code. Such incompatibilities are a big problem -- worse, I think, than the disadvantages of keeping this point unchamged. It's not a big problem, just surprising occasionally. > [ BTW, I just noticed that `?\C-é` is 137, which seems like a plain bug. ] One can argue that it should give an error message, but barring that, there is no better value it could give. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)