From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Elisp LSP Server Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2021 16:57:08 -0400 Message-ID: References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87ee99dv34.fsf@gmail.com> <07cf50ddddb5a9556aa94201a7ac88c9@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <87r1d0562u.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1cz7qcd.fsf@posteo.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13505"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, psainty@orcon.net.nz, agzam.ibragimov@gmail.com, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 06 23:01:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mYE2d-0003Ix-Qi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 23:01:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46544 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYE2c-0004a8-RF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 17:01:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYDyR-0007Bg-2e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 16:57:11 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42288) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYDyQ-00056F-Oo; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 16:57:10 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mYDyO-0006IP-V2; Wed, 06 Oct 2021 16:57:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r1cz7qcd.fsf@posteo.net> (message from Philip Kaludercic on Tue, 05 Oct 2021 09:50:26 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276457 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Isn't the code behind that particular feature proprietary? > In what sense? The definition of "free software" and its antonym, "proprietary software", are in https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html. When we speak of whether certain code is proprietary, that's the sense we mean. What is not necessarily so clear is this other question: which code are we asking about? Which code should we ask about? We should ask about all the code that you need to install onto a free GNU/Linux system installation, so as to make the feature work. Everything needed to make the feature work is crucial, because all of that needs to be free in order to have this in Emacs. GitHub is inherently proprietary, so yes, but what > about this specific feature is different. GitHub has grave moral faults and has done great harm to the free software community, but saying it is "proprietary" is not well defined. That is because GitHub is not a program -- it is a service. The distinction of free vs proprietary is defined for programs, but it is not defined for services. For more explanation, see https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/network-services-arent-free-or-nonfree.html. Because of GitHub's moral faults, GNU software should never presume use of GitHub. It is ok to support use of GitHub _or_ some freedom-respecting alternatives. However, a feature that works _only_ with GitHib (or other bad alternatives) must not be supported by Emacs. However, I think we're talking about a different kind of feature here. > I would love to be able to > >> comfortably browse through elisp code without having to clone it > >> locally, but none of the existing VSCode Lisp plugins are any good. You perceive a similarity between this and the GitHub example, and maybe you're right, but I don't follow. Would you please describe the similarity you perceive? Does this propose integrating Emacs somehow with some nonfree software? If so, please state the details: what nonfree software is it, what does it do, and how would Emacs interact with it? We need to analyze this clearly to determine what our moral goal requires. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)