From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 00:20:59 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <20201011073553.GA6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011120840.GC2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011125031.GC6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201012050418.GZ2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201013052736.GE31408@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> <20201016142436.187b8210@argon> <20201016152523.6fdfef65@argon> <6142a27f-c53b-35bf-1038-5f047395e868@yandex.ru> <20201016204531.77fab05b@argon> <725aa7c4-321f-4483-5a21-a148ff7f119b@yandex.ru> <20201016213312.603595fe@argon> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38463"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mve1@runbox.com, dgutov@yandex.ru, bugs@gnu.support, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 17 06:27:32 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTdoZ-0009wK-Ni for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 06:27:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53382 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTdoY-0003a5-O8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 00:27:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTdiI-0003fs-Rc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 00:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49520) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTdiI-000316-Dc; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 00:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kTdiF-0007hJ-NI; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 00:20:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Thibaut Verron on Fri, 16 Oct 2020 16:58:14 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257898 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > We could turn this argument around and ask why the developers who > > maintain MELPA don't remove `2-3' packages that promote non-free > > software. > I sincerely hope it doesn't happen. Those packages might rely on > non-free software, but they are still packages that some users find > valuable or even vital, and that they would want to find somewhere > else if not available on Melpa. Removing them from Melpa would only > move the "problem". I think you have picked up your values (your basis of judging what is good or bad) from what most people think, and that you took for granted we have the same values. But we don't. The goal of the GNU Project is not simply "to help users." It is to help users _escape from nonfree software_ (des logiciels pas libres), and ultimately to build a world where all software is free. Nonfree software is an injustice -- nonfree software subjugates users. Our goal is to _eradicate it_. See https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html and fsf.org/tedx for explanation of these ideas. Suppose that a user finds some nonfree software because a Melpa package refers to it. Suppose the user considers that nonfree software very useful. What should we say about that? You, thinking based on your values, seem to consider that a good thing. You draw the conclusion that it would be unfortunate if Melpa deleted the Lisp package which refers to that nonfree program. We, based on the values we have followed since the 1980s say that it is bad that someone is using a nonfree program, that we wish the nonfree program did not exist, and that we hope someone will liberate its users soon by developing a free replacement for it. We would be very glad if Melpa deleted that Lisp package. If user A says, "I really like nonfree program X," my guess is that you would say, "I am glad you like it." If A had found out about X from you, you might feel proud to have "helped". We would say, "How sad, one step backwards away from freedom." If A had found out about X from us, we would say, "Oops! An own-goal! What did we do wrong, and how can we make sure we don't do it again?" We tend to expect that people joining in GNU Project discussion lists are familiar with the basic ideas and values of the GNU Project. But this is not always the case. It would be good if we could recognize this sooner and educate people about the basic ideas of the GNU Project sooner. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)