From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:32:37 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4a1188f8-9864-54c0-ae6f-5f32102d9757@gmx.com> <20201011073553.GA6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201011120840.GC2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201011125031.GC6784@odonien.localdomain> <20201012050418.GZ2923@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201013052736.GE31408@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201016130235.06218dae@argon> <20201016142436.187b8210@argon> <20201016152523.6fdfef65@argon> <6142a27f-c53b-35bf-1038-5f047395e868@yandex.ru> <20201016204531.77fab05b@argon> <725aa7c4-321f-4483-5a21-a148ff7f119b@yandex.ru> <20201016213312.603595fe@argon> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16419"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mve1@runbox.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, dgutov@yandex.ru To: thibaut.verron@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 16 19:36:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kTTe8-00048Q-J7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 19:36:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35150 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTTe7-0000Qm-Am for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:36:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40322) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTTaq-00073g-Ig for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:32:40 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38219) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kTTap-0001aa-Qf; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:32:39 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kTTan-0006bi-Jd; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:32:37 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Thibaut Verron on Fri, 16 Oct 2020 19:16:19 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257838 Archived-At: Le ven. 16 oct. 2020 à 18:50, Alfred M. Szmidt a écrit : > > > Asking to for non-free software to be removed is a laudable thing to > > do and it is something I hope more people will do, but it is not > > telling someone what they should or shouldn't do. > > Would you mind clarifying the difference between the two? > > Could you please get me a cup of tea? > > I want a cup of tea, get me one. > > Is there anyone who wants to implement frobnitz in Emacs? > > You must implement frobnitz in Emacs otherwise we will start using vi. So the difference is to say "please" and be polite when we ask them to remove some packages? That is the differences between asking someone if they can do something for you, and giving them an order ... so yes? What if they say no? Does it change our opinion of them? If someone brings you a cup of tea, or does something for you, don't you hold them to a slightly higher regard? And if someone, or a project, removes something that we find problematic, instead of maybe insisting on keeping it around, don't you think that also changes the overal perception between the two parties? If they say no, then they said no. Maybe one can convince them of otherwise, but trying to force their hand would be unkind and unfair. Just like it is unkind to try and force the GNU project to for example recommend Melpa in Emacs since it would go against our principles.