From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making GNUS continue to work with Gmail Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:23:29 -0400 Message-ID: References: <878sf9c69y.fsf@gnus.org> <871rkw62t3.fsf@gnus.org> <87bljki71n.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87364wxlec.fsf@gnus.org> <87imdsgmlw.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <871rkfhkhc.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <875z9p5hnc.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87364pbkn0.fsf@gnus.org> <87lfihe0zf.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <874kp55l8t.fsf@gnus.org> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38829"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 17 05:24:18 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7Vkw-000A17-6V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 05:24:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58758 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7Vkv-00033f-7j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:24:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39568) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7VkD-0002H2-IB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:23:33 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7VkA-00026e-SU; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:23:30 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1k7Vk9-0002D0-BP; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 23:23:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:17:30 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253866 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > With the solution used by Kmail, Thunderbird and others, when a > user adds a Google account to [per] mail client, a Google login > page is opened in a browser, on which [person indicates per] > login and password. This page is the https://accounts.google.com > page, and it uses nonfree JavaScript code. Thank you for posting this information. About use of Google services I know only what people tell me. Let's look at the implications of this for the situation we are in. First, a question: does creating a Gmail account go through some Google page (perhaps the same one) that also requires nonfree JavaScript code? If so, then anyone who starts using Gmail in the future will have had to run that same nonfree software to start. It would be wrong to steer anyone in that direction, but when users do so on their own initiative it is not our responsibility. (If someone decides to use Gmail, that won't be because we suggested it.) So I think it would be acceptable for GNUS to have an app key such that, IF a user does these things with Gmail, per Gmail account works with GNUS. But it would not be acceptable for the code of GNUS or the documentation of GNUS to steer users towards doing those operations with Gmail. I have a hunch there may be a bounded but perhaps large set of people who started using Gmail at a time when it did not require running nonfree software to make the account. It looks like Google is going to force them to run nonfree software at least once or else stop using Gmail. That is injustice, and too bad, but it's Google's injustice, not ours. It does not rasie an ethical issue about our conduct. I've made a number of suppositions here. Are any of them mistaken? -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)