From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 01:03:07 -0400 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <87d07xamrg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878silajdl.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tv18pyh4.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83zhaih0oz.fsf@gnu.org> <83pnbegsvm.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5hby1.fsf@gnu.org> <2e4e8ce9-d857-f3e3-31cf-a40dee67bd25@yandex.ru> <83y2q1dsvh.fsf@gnu.org> <2468efa6-7dbd-8634-44cc-586bb6985f49@yandex.ru> <83pnbddrfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11ldpxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> <2c09354e7994f0e61271ab0078256a9dc4202171.camel@k-7.ch> <66042e2090742ef8413f153a2517f03ad7b533f8.camel@k-7.ch> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="32036"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Gendre Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 14 07:04:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ62W-0008BO-Cx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 07:04:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35158 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ62V-0004hb-EV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 01:04:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58224) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ61V-0003Uy-B5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 01:03:09 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54005) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ61U-00078h-NP; Thu, 14 May 2020 01:03:08 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ61T-0005Gv-OB; Thu, 14 May 2020 01:03:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <66042e2090742ef8413f153a2517f03ad7b533f8.camel@k-7.ch> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=C3=A9bastien?= Gendre on Tue, 12 May 2020 18:06:06 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250189 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Today, this problem can be fixed in 2 possible way: > - List all external tools needed on a README/INSTALL file and let the > user install them That is the right way to handle this, because it gives the user a chance to think about the matter. > - Automatically download and install the external tools with some > Elisp code that call `wget` or a packages manager I've explained previously why that is bad. > For the second way, it is already used by some third party Emacs > packages Indeed, some users and developers do things we think are misguided. We can't tell them what to do. > If we look at the ethic problematic of the situation, today we cannot > prevent third party Emacs packages to automatically download external > tools. Indeed, we can't stop them from disregarding those other values. What we can do, and must do, is to draw a clear line between them and us, and put up a sort of a fence there. Having GNU ELPA, and not recommending packages outside of it, is the way we do it. > But this question can also arise for the package manager of Emacs that > can be used with a third party repository that would providing > proprietary software. That is why we don't enable any third-part repos by default. This way of making the fence is not the only possible way. It has some problems. People are citing those problems as arguments that we should put the fence further out, or not as high. But the other ways would have similar problems, and other problems too. We we consider changing the details, we need to consider the drawbacks of the alternatives, not only the drawbacks of the current way. I will talk more about this in another message. -- Dr Richard Stallman Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)