From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 14:12:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <83ftc9dm07.fsf@gnu.org> <0d678371-2df7-519e-5ec0-7e26bfa6ea34@gmail.com> <11dff979-002e-e03e-2e3e-cdb09fcc409e@yandex.ru> <8017be3d-a4ed-61eb-9bdb-9a95c77a0698@gmail.com> <3adf65ae-fd0d-4fee-adfd-e11d39a148fc@yandex.ru> <01e211df-acfb-fb8a-eedc-7cb439b64cd8@yandex.ru> <57491476-b7d1-ed1e-9eaf-bc45db607ae8@yandex.ru> <835zd2bf2h.fsf@gnu.org> <1c43f78b-2bc5-8c81-4a57-ba63bb721c85@yandex.ru> <83wo5i9z21.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wm9uy7.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="107076"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eliz@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, cpitclaudel@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 20:13:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZPL-000RlU-Mt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 20:13:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39974 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZPK-00055J-O7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:13:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37724) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZOQ-0004Qh-U8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:12:38 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZOP-0001GX-Ee; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:12:38 -0400 Original-Received: from ams by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jYZOK-0002Jj-Lx; Tue, 12 May 2020 14:12:32 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 12 May 2020 09:00:52 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250011 Archived-At: > Our unwillingness to make Free Software packages like Magit or Tuareg > easily installable into Emacs with no extra configuration forces many > of our users to add MELPA to their `package-archives`. > > I'm sure that Magit or Tuareg are most welcome to be part of Emacs if > the the needed paper work is done. > > An idea maybe e.g., Magit could join as a a GNU project, and followed > the needed rules for a GNU project but without copyright assignments > to the FSF. Then Magit could be listed in the package-archives list. > It would not be part of Emacs, but it would safeguard the situation of > not falling into a trap of recommending non-free software, etc. > > The unwillingness you speak of is falling into a trap of recommending > things that the GNU project is activley working against -- non-free > software. Not an unwillingness to add things. Just like RMS you conflate "hasn't signed copyright paperwork and is not interested in following our coding rules" with "things that the GNU project is activley working against -- non-free software". I do not think I have and I do not think RMS did so either. You are raising a tanget and not addressing the point I was trying to make. It shouldn't be a suprise that if something is part of Emacs, the same rules should apply -- whatever those are for that specific project. You've are suggesting that Emacs should neglect to follow its own rules. I suggested how a package (it could also be as some have suggested a non(?)-GNU not-part-of-EmacsLPA repository) could be made easily installable which was part of your goal, but still able to follow its own technical guidelines and still be acceptable to be directly recommend since it would follow the overall guideline of the GNU project in rejecting non-free software. That is assuming that the e.g. Magit developers want their software to be part of Emacs. The most impotant goal of GNU Emacs and the GNU project is that of free software. So if there is something that would work against those goals even slightly it will be rejected -- you called this an unwillingness, but it is a matter of upholding the project mission and goals. You're describing as enemies people who simply want to write their Free Software under a different set of rules. That ends up playing in the hands of those who really don't care about Free Software. Sorry, but that is a immense misintepretation of what I wrote, and I think you are quite aware of that. Nobody is describing anyone as an enemy.