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From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>
Cc: bug-gettext@gnu.org, bruno@clisp.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs i18n
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 22:28:07 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1h7WOF-0006T8-Be@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87y357q4uc.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Thu, 21 Mar 2019 23:45:31 +0200)

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  > The misconception of your proposal is assuming a pure algorithmic
  > inflection whereas actually inflection in Russian is dictionary-based
  > (in addition to algorithms that process words from the dictionary),

Maybe I did.  I see various meanings for "pure algorithmic", so I am
not sure whether I did, or did not, assume the point you have in mind.

  > i.e. to be able to inflect a word you need a large dictionary of all
  > words where each word in the dictionary has at least the following
  > lexical properties:
  > - part of speech
  > - noun grammatical gender: masculine, feminine, neuter
  > - noun animacy: animate, inanimate
  > - inflection type

It sounds like Russian has various declensions, like Latin.
Do I understand right?

If so, it is true that 'russian-nom' would require specification of
declensions.  Maybe `russian-masc' as well.

Are there standard names or codes for the declensions?  In Latin, each
declension has a number.  I think those numbers are standard in
teaching of Latin, so everyone who can read Latin knows those numbers,
and translators would find it natural to use a construct that
specifies the proper declension by number.

We would not have to implement all of them -- only those that
are useful enough to be worth implementing and documenting.
We would tell translators to handle the other declensions, and
the special exceptions, and the irregular plurals, using
lower-level constructs comparable to what gettext does now.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)





  reply	other threads:[~2019-03-23  2:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 235+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-03-20 11:59 Emacs i18n Bruno Haible
2019-03-20 16:36 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-20 21:32 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-21  2:14   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]     ` <E1h6nE3-0000bt-SW-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-21 21:45       ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-23  2:28         ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2019-03-23  7:55           ` Yuri Khan
     [not found]             ` <CAP_d_8WjQwAtcWCfkjXHtc-dqYyBfnaP0+9L8KK6eCp4r_ZsPQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-23 17:50               ` Ineiev
2019-03-24  1:43               ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]           ` <E1h7WOF-0006T8-Be-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-23 21:48             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24  1:47               ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22 20:50       ` Chusslove Illich
     [not found]   ` <87h8bx5ijn.fsf-i9wRM+HIrmlRTR8OWt4JRw@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-21  2:55     ` Bruno Haible
2019-03-21  2:14 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22  1:26   ` Bruno Haible
2019-03-23  2:29     ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-07-17  9:27 Narendra Joshi
2021-07-17  9:36 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-17  9:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 13:32   ` mrf
2021-07-17 14:01     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 20:00       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-17 20:57         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-17 22:06           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-17 22:55             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-18  2:26               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-19  1:53                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-18  6:47               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-19  1:52               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19  1:51             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19  5:28               ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21  5:24                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  6:32                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  9:45                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:16                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 12:08                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 12:36                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  8:28                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21  8:39                     ` tomas
2021-07-21  9:18                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 10:52                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 11:53                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 12:56                     ` Jean Louis
2021-07-21 13:23                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 13:39                         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 14:05                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 14:47                             ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 17:55                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 18:15                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 18:26                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 18:27                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 18:42                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 19:06                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 19:40                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 20:49                                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 21:44                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 21:58                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 22:55                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:05                                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-22  8:11                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  8:16                                                   ` tomas
2021-07-22  9:24                                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-22  5:49                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-22 10:04                                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 21:57                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:09                                         ` tomas
2021-07-22  8:17                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  9:18                                             ` lisa-asket
2021-07-21 14:22                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 17:02                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 17:49                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19 11:43               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  6:11                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  7:02                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  8:43                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:04                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 10:14                         ` tomas
2021-07-21 10:34                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21 11:16                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 13:01                       ` Jean Louis
2021-07-21 13:51                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  8:15                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-22 17:32                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-07-22 18:02                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  7:31                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  7:47                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21  9:59                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:28                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 11:49                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 12:44                             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 13:20                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-23  6:03           ` Jean Louis
2021-07-23  9:22             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-27 20:52               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-17 22:03         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-19  1:46           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-18  6:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 20:06   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-17 22:03     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-18  6:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-02-18  0:35 bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson
2019-02-27 21:36 ` Juri Linkov
2019-02-28  3:34   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-02-28 21:33     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-01  3:59       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-02 20:55         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-03  3:04           ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-03 15:31             ` Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-03 20:57               ` Emacs i18n Juri Linkov
2019-03-04  1:46                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-06  9:38                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-03-06 11:23                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 20:33                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 20:50                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-21 21:03                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:21                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 21:34                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:56                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 22:05                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 23:46                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-22  8:22                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 16:10                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-22 16:35                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 17:16                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-22 17:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 23:17                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:17                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 21:59                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-22  8:22                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-23 21:50                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24  3:36                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-24 21:55                             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24 23:31                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-25 21:32                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25 22:31                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-26 16:11                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-26 16:22                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-26 16:55                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-26 22:35                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-27  3:43                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-28 14:56                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-28 15:52                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-27  2:34                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-26 23:16                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-27  1:35                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-04-24  6:39                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-04-24 20:18                                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25  3:35                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25  9:04                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-25 21:02                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-26  3:27                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-27 23:06                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-25 10:52                               ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-25 15:37                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25 21:11                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25 22:05                                   ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-27 21:22                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-28 11:03                                       ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-04  3:27               ` Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Richard Stallman
2019-03-04 16:36                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-04 18:37                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-04 19:07                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-05  2:09                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-05 21:58                         ` Emacs i18n Juri Linkov
2019-03-06  2:16                           ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-06 18:15                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 19:47                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 20:19                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:52                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:37                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:07                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  8:16                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:07                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:33                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-03-08  8:22                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  3:11                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-09  7:54                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 10:30                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  6:07                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-11  1:20                                             ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-11  3:52                                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-12  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-12  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  8:45                                           ` Yuri Khan
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  6:14                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07  3:42                               ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07 14:46                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 17:19                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07 18:24                                     ` martin rudalics
2019-03-07 18:44                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07 20:22                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 22:25                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-08  7:29                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:18                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:11                                   ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-06 17:30                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 18:09                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 19:39                             ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 19:49                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:33                                 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:30                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 16:06                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  4:35                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-07 16:04                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-08  4:09                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-11 21:48                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-11 22:51                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-12 21:45                                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-17 21:23                                           ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-18 21:20                                             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-18 21:55                                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-19 20:40                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-11 23:59                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-12  9:16                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-06 19:47                             ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 20:21                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:43                                 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:31                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  3:44                             ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07 14:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 22:29                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-08  1:48                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-08  8:08                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08 15:11                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-08 20:11                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  2:44                                           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-09  6:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  8:37                                               ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 10:45                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 11:27                                                   ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 17:23                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 19:55                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:07                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 20:47                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:04                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 20:14                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 19:22                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 19:39                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 20:48                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:08                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-10  3:09                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10 13:38                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  7:37                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  3:12                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:11                                 ` Richard Stallman

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