From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2018 02:07:02 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87bm9d9zs9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87efe75v02.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87sh2lu471.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87r2i4p2f8.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536474311 27522 195.159.176.226 (9 Sep 2018 06:25:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2018 06:25:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 09 08:25:07 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyt9e-00072D-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 08:25:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46246 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fytBk-0002Qg-GC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 02:27:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47164) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyt7O-0007yB-GE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 02:22:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyssC-0002xg-S6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 02:07:05 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyssA-0002uf-EP; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 02:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fyssA-0006bg-7Q; Sun, 09 Sep 2018 02:07:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r2i4p2f8.fsf@toy.adminart.net> (message from hw on Sat, 08 Sep 2018 15:02:51 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229546 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I'm fine with encouraging people to learn these movement keys, but how > do the available movement keys give beginners good reasons to use Emacs, > and how do they make using it better for them? For the second question, they make cursor motion faster. The fact that it can be faster is a reason to use Emacs but I won't claim that reason is visible to people thinking about using Emacs. > Tutorials which take this into account more strongly might be more > encouraging to use Emacs in the first place, and then beginners might > want to learn the special movement keys. That approach might be good, but what can we do to encourage them to learn the cursor-motion commands later on? > BTW, I still don't see how anyone could move around efficiently when it > requires to press ESC. Does it require a special keyboard? Nowadays, essentially all keyboards have an Alt key, so one never needs to use ESC for cursor motion. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)