Please install this doc change for me.

Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

diff --git a/doc/emacs/macos.texi b/doc/emacs/macos.texi
index e669eaa..00e52f2 100644
--- a/doc/emacs/macos.texi
+++ b/doc/emacs/macos.texi
@@ -14,6 +14,14 @@ built either without window system support, with X11, or with the
 Cocoa interface; this section only applies to the Cocoa build.  This
 does not support versions before macOS 10.6.
 
+  GNUstep is free software; MacOS is not.  MacOS a non-free operating
+system; that means it denies its users the freedom that every computer
+user deserves.  That is an injustice.  For your freedom's sake, we
+urge you to switch to a free operating system.
+
+  We support GNU Emacs on proprietary operating systems because
+we hope this taste of freedom will inspire users to escape from them.
+
   For various historical and technical reasons, Emacs uses the term
 @samp{Nextstep} internally, instead of ``Cocoa'' or ``macOS''; for
 instance, most of the commands and variables described in this section

diff --git a/doc/emacs/msdos.texi b/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
index 90f0389..ceb203c 100644
--- a/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
+++ b/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
@@ -19,6 +19,13 @@ manual (@pxref{MS-DOS,,, emacs-xtra, Specialized Emacs Features}).
 section (@pxref{MS-DOS}).
 @end ifnottex
 
+  MS-Windows is a non-free operating system; that means it denies its
+users the freedom that every computer user deserves.  That is an
+injustice.  For your freedom's sake, we urge you to switch to a free
+operating system.
+
+  We support GNU Emacs on these proprietary operating systems because
+we hope this taste of freedom will inspire users to escape from them.
 
   The behavior of Emacs on MS-Windows is reasonably similar to what is
 documented in the rest of the manual, including support for long file

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Paul Eggert]

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I installed that doc change into the emacs-26 branch, and followed it up 
with the attached minor grammar and capitalization fixup (the name is 
spelled "macOS" nowadays). This should appear in the master branch after 
the next merge.

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From 57833e512cc77a1d7dcd9dec884c0397daa51ccd Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 19:07:48 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] * doc/emacs/macos.texi: Tweak grammar and capitalization.

---
 doc/emacs/macos.texi | 4 ++--
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/emacs/macos.texi b/doc/emacs/macos.texi
index 00e52f26d5..ef2e944890 100644
--- a/doc/emacs/macos.texi
+++ b/doc/emacs/macos.texi
@@ -14,8 +14,8 @@ Mac OS / GNUstep
 Cocoa interface; this section only applies to the Cocoa build.  This
 does not support versions before macOS 10.6.
 
-  GNUstep is free software; MacOS is not.  MacOS a non-free operating
-system; that means it denies its users the freedom that every computer
+  GNUstep is free software; macOS is not.  Because it is a non-free
+operating system, macOS denies its users the freedom that every computer
 user deserves.  That is an injustice.  For your freedom's sake, we
 urge you to switch to a free operating system.
 
-- 
2.14.3

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Stefan Monnier]

> --- a/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
> +++ b/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
[...]
> +  MS-Windows is a non-free operating system; that means it denies its

This is the manual for the "MS-DOS" version of Emacs, not the MS-Windows
version, AFAIK.  Also, AFAIK this version should also work under
FreeDOS, so maybe the text should mention FreeDOS, just like the macOS
text mentions GNUstep.


        Stefan


PS: Wondering if it might also work under DOSBox.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:36:15 -0400
> 
> > --- a/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
> > +++ b/doc/emacs/msdos.texi
> [...]
> > +  MS-Windows is a non-free operating system; that means it denies its
> 
> This is the manual for the "MS-DOS" version of Emacs, not the MS-Windows
> version, AFAIK.

No, most of it is about MS-Windows, the file-name notwithstanding.
(MS-DOS peculiarities are described in msdos-xtra.texi.)

> PS: Wondering if it might also work under DOSBox.

AFAIK, it does, see https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Software.  But I never
tried neither FreeDOS nor DOSBox, so I don't know how stable the DOS
Emacs is in these environments.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I installed that doc change into the emacs-26 branch, and followed it up 
  > with the attached minor grammar and capitalization fixup (the name is 
  > spelled "macOS" nowadays).

Thank you.

I prefer MacOS since it fits English conventions.  Let Apple complain
all it likes -- we do not have an obligation to support Apple's
marketing.

Besides, Apple surely spells our name "Linux" sometimes.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > This is the manual for the "MS-DOS" version of Emacs, not the MS-Windows
  > > version, AFAIK.

  > No, most of it is about MS-Windows, the file-name notwithstanding.
  > (MS-DOS peculiarities are described in msdos-xtra.texi.)

Should we rename the file?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> CC: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:29:27 -0400
> 
>   > No, most of it is about MS-Windows, the file-name notwithstanding.
>   > (MS-DOS peculiarities are described in msdos-xtra.texi.)
> 
> Should we rename the file?

I see no need, as some of what is there is also true for MS-DOS.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Colin Baxter]

>>>>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

    > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
    > ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
    > ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's
    > example. ]]]

    >> I installed that doc change into the emacs-26 branch, and
    >> followed it up with the attached minor grammar and capitalization
    >> fixup (the name is spelled "macOS" nowadays).

    > Thank you.

    > I prefer MacOS since it fits English conventions.  Let Apple
    > complain all it likes -- we do not have an obligation to support
    > Apple's marketing.

The emacs web-site https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html
has a heading "macOS" and, later, "Using MacPorts:"

Best wishes.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > The emacs web-site https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html
  > has a heading "macOS" and, later, "Using MacPorts:"

Thanks for reporting this.  Would someone change the former to MacOS?
I don't know what's right for the latter.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > Should we rename the file?

  > I see no need, as some of what is there is also true for MS-DOS.

Windows is the primary topic.  If we were to create it today,
we would surely call it mswindows.texi.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

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> On Apr 2, 2018, at 0:03, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> 
>> The emacs web-site https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/download.html
>> has a heading "macOS" and, later, "Using MacPorts:"
> 
> Thanks for reporting this.  Would someone change the former to MacOS?

If the emacs project bothers enough to provide code for users of macOS then maybe it should use the labels macOS users expect to find. Using MacOS suggests that the code does not support the most recent versions of the OS, which is not the case.

Apple does not care how you label things. Users, who sometimes do not have the choice, do. 

Besides, all this has little to do with English language conventions.

Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune



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Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:03:43 -0400
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
>   > > Should we rename the file?
> 
>   > I see no need, as some of what is there is also true for MS-DOS.
> 
> Windows is the primary topic.  If we were to create it today,
> we would surely call it mswindows.texi.

But we didn't create it today.

As I've said in the past, I'd like to limit file renaming to the
situations where it makes absolutely no sense to keep the original
name.  We are not there yet with this file.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Stefan Monnier]

> As I've said in the past, I'd like to limit file renaming to the
> situations where it makes absolutely no sense to keep the original
> name.  We are not there yet with this file.

+1


        Stefan

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > If the emacs project bothers enough to provide code for users of
  > macOS then maybe it should use the labels macOS users expect to
  > find. Using MacOS suggests that the code does not support the most
  > recent versions of the OS, which is not the case.

I see your point, but I think the effect is so small that we need not
be very concerned.

  > Apple does not care how you label things. Users, who sometimes do
  > not have the choice, do.

With all due respect, I think you are mistaken.  Companies generally
care very strongly about all the details of their PR messaging.
Apple has shown great attention to the surface of things.

  > Besides, all this has little to do with English language conventions.

Why would it not?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > As I've said in the past, I'd like to limit file renaming to the
  > situations where it makes absolutely no sense to keep the original
  > name.  We are not there yet with this file.

I don't insist.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Please install this doc change for me.

[Nicolas Petton]

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Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks for reporting this.  Would someone change the former to MacOS?
> I don't know what's right for the latter.

Done.

Cheers,
Nico

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