From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What improvements would be truly useful? Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:20:26 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87inaiss6l.fsf@web.de> <6FCF6ACA-4F29-4B6B-BE9D-D7130C6E9495@gnu.org> <87fu5moe4c.fsf@web.de> <877eqyocro.fsf@web.de> <83zi3uz4nb.fsf@gnu.org> <0b1dd3fa-e0b0-ed20-a256-dd92d1c1826f@dancol.org> <8bc3c4c7-dfc7-987a-95e7-bd309e2326c6@cs.ucla.edu> <03118DC0-39DA-4AB5-980E-A33809B9A5EE@raeburn.org> <83sh9es8jw.fsf@gnu.org> <2cdaa88f-f31e-e05c-a940-d83e25c9c167@dancol.org> <919bf465a7eecad7669fa29762f5770b.squirrel@dancol.org> <87o9jy9uq4.fsf@mbork.pl> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520633957 10997 195.159.176.226 (9 Mar 2018 22:19:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 22:19:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 09 23:19:12 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1euQM4-0002k9-5v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 23:19:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48406 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euQO7-000156-3c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:21:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44791) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euQNZ-00014h-KP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:20:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euQNY-0008MY-I1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:20:45 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:46139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euQNH-0007wm-4F; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:20:27 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1euQNG-0001Qz-OR; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 17:20:26 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 08 Mar 2018 23:43:57 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223562 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Of course Emacs can also hide information (as text-properties, as > invisible text, as data stored in buffer-local variables, ...) but most > packages follow a design where as little info as possible is hidden. > Indeed, whenever I hide such information, I think it over many times > because I know there's a very strong chance that users won't like it. That's a valid point, but WYSIWYG text processing is so desirable that we shouldn't rule it out because of that point. Perhaps Emacs WYSIWYG should have a mode to show the markup and a mode to hide the markup, with a character to toggle between them. Where and how to store the markup data is an independent question. It could be in invisible characters, or in text properties. Or some combination of the two. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See https://stallman.org/skype.html.