Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Mike Gerwitz <mtg@gnu.org> reports that logging in on Docker Hub
requires running nonfree Javascript software.  While people don't need
to log in to download images there, our putting an image there implies
that we run that nonfree software.

Why not distribute that image from a GNU Project server instead?
It will work just the same.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> "RS" == Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

RS> Why not distribute that image from a GNU Project server instead? It will
RS> work just the same.

We could do that, it will just require an additional setup step. The advantage
to DockerHub is that it's the default place that docker will look if you try
to run an image that doesn't exist yet on your machine. If we provide a custom
download location, people will need to either configure Docker to look there
(which is needed for upgrades to happen seamlessly, should they follow the
"latest" tag), or download and import the image manually.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > We could do that, it will just require an additional setup step. The advantage
  > to DockerHub is that it's the default place that docker will look if you try
  > to run an image that doesn't exist yet on your machine. If we provide a custom
  > download location, people will need to either configure Docker to look there
  > (which is needed for upgrades to happen seamlessly, should they follow the
  > "latest" tag), or download and import the image manually.

That's not the end of the world.  So that's what we should to do.

Given our example, maybe people will convince Docker Hub to fix their
problem so we can upload our image there.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:50:44 -0500 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: 

>> We could do that, it will just require an additional setup step. The advantage
>> to DockerHub is that it's the default place that docker will look if you try
>> to run an image that doesn't exist yet on your machine. If we provide a custom
>> download location, people will need to either configure Docker to look there
>> (which is needed for upgrades to happen seamlessly, should they follow the
>> "latest" tag), or download and import the image manually.

RS> That's not the end of the world.  So that's what we should to do.

RS> Given our example, maybe people will convince Docker Hub to fix their
RS> problem so we can upload our image there.

I think you're confusing two things: Docker Hub as a web site (which
requires nonfree software to use during *setup*) and Docker Hub as an
image repository (which requires nothing but Docker itself, it's like a
package repository with automated builds per package). They may talk to
the same backend databases, but they are not the same thing.

Building an alternative to Docker Hub is an interesting proposition, but
not a blocker to this work.

Until there's an alternative, I'm keeping the Docker Hub account active
and will set up builds there. When there's an alternative, I'm happy to
migrate it or duplicate it.

Ted

Re: Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I think you're confusing two things: Docker Hub as a web site (which
  > requires nonfree software to use during *setup*) and Docker Hub as an
  > image repository (which requires nothing but Docker itself, it's like a
  > package repository with automated builds per package). They may talk to
  > the same backend databases, but they are not the same thing.

This is the first I heard of the distinction.

A concrete practical question: does it work to prepare and upload
images without running nonfree JS code?

If so, we can go ahead and upload images.

  > Building an alternative to Docker Hub is an interesting proposition, but
  > not a blocker to this work.

That seems to be a misunderstanding -- I didn't propose we do that,
only that we distribute our Emacs images from some FSF server.  The
image is just a file, right?  So we can distribute it any way that we
distribute other files, right?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 22:34:23 -0500 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: 

>> I think you're confusing two things: Docker Hub as a web site (which
>> requires nonfree software to use during *setup*) and Docker Hub as an
>> image repository (which requires nothing but Docker itself, it's like a
>> package repository with automated builds per package). They may talk to
>> the same backend databases, but they are not the same thing.

RS> This is the first I heard of the distinction.

I think many of us assumed we were talking about the same thing. Sorry
if I added to the confusion.

RS> A concrete practical question: does it work to prepare and upload
RS> images without running nonfree JS code?

RS> If so, we can go ahead and upload images.

Yes, correct. Just think of it as a package repository with automated
builds. You can upload your own package, built locally. That's what we
may do for the Guix images, if the Guix developers are interested.

>> Building an alternative to Docker Hub is an interesting proposition, but
>> not a blocker to this work.

RS> That seems to be a misunderstanding -- I didn't propose we do that,
RS> only that we distribute our Emacs images from some FSF server.  The
RS> image is just a file, right?

Docker images are distributed as checksummed (and optionally signed)
layers, so you don't have to download layers you already have locally.
They can also be distributed as archives but that's a lot more expensive
because all the layers have to be downloaded. So it's a little more
complicated than just serving files.

RS> So we can distribute it any way that we distribute other files, right?

We can distribute archives as files, but that's suboptimal.

We can also set up a FSF Docker repository that serves checksummed
signed layers just like Docker Hub. It would be a nice Savannah add-on.
But it's not a blocker to putting Emacs on Docker Hub, since the
"official GNU Emacs Docker image" can live in multiple places, and the
goal is to make it available to the users.

Ted

Re: Docker Hub requires nonfree software to log in

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > RS> A concrete practical question: does it work to prepare and upload
  > RS> images without running nonfree JS code?

  > RS> If so, we can go ahead and upload images.

  > Yes, correct. Just think of it as a package repository with automated
  > builds. You can upload your own package, built locally. That's what we
  > may do for the Guix images, if the Guix developers are interested.

That's good.

What exactly is it that requires nonfree JS code to use?
And what job does it do?
-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.