From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Differences between Org-Mode and Hyperbole Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:42 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> <87k2h45wzm.fsf@mbork.pl> <87r3b8axod.fsf@mbork.pl> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467843882 12233 80.91.229.3 (6 Jul 2016 22:24:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 22:24:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 07 00:24:33 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvF9-00049Q-Im for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 00:24:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36090 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvF8-0005IZ-V7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:24:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44322) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDX-00044R-AJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDW-0007g8-8e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:51 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDQ-0007bG-Td; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:44 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDO-0005iv-QC; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:42 -0400 In-reply-to: <87r3b8axod.fsf@mbork.pl> (message from Marcin Borkowski on Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:53:38 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205287 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > That was my point! (Or one of my points.) That Org is built on top of > Emacs, it's not a "separate editor". I agree, it is not a "separate editor". I don't think I said it was. What I say is that it is a bundle of various features that ought to be separate (and be able to work together). > > This feature seems to make sense, but I don't see that it does something > > useful for me. I never said Org mode was not useful (for other people). That is not the question. You are defending something that I never attacked. When I said > This feature seems to make sense, but I don't see that it does something > useful for me. I said it in the context of a particular argument. You said > > > By typing one or more asterisks followed by space at the beginning of > > > a line, you start a heading (like in vanilla Emacs' Outline mode). > > > By pressing TAB when point is on a headline, you cycle through various > > > possible visibility states. and I responded that this is not useful for me. This seems to be the basic feature of Org mode. When I read about how to use Org mode, I saw something that I didn't want to use. At that point, I gave up reading about it. If there are other features in Org mode, which I might find useful, I didn't get that far. > I do not understand this. I had similar reservations at the beginning, > but then I actually tried and I found Org _very_ easy to learn. Apparently you _wanted_ to learn Org mode. Perhaps you saw that it did something that seemed useful to you. That didn't happen for me. The documentation for Org mode presented a lot of things that I didn't even want to read about, let alone try to learn. So I gave up on it. One of > the guiding principles of Org is that you don't have to learn anything > you don't want to use (apart from the very basics, like the tree > structure of an Org file). That may be true, but it doesn't address this issue. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.