From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Differences between Org-Mode and Hyperbole Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:29 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> <5775A512.4020803@gmail.com> <8337ntvm2d.fsf@gnu.org> <5776B89F.60704@gmail.com> <83k2h5tbtv.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9c4ar72.fsf@mbork.pl> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467843781 10766 80.91.229.3 (6 Jul 2016 22:23:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 22:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: adatgyujto@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 07 00:22:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDZ-00037L-4m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 00:22:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36081 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDY-0003zH-8f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44177) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDP-0003ww-2R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDN-0007aA-1o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:41 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:41176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDE-0007Xr-6G; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:32 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bKvDB-0005iQ-L6; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:22:29 -0400 In-reply-to: <87h9c4ar72.fsf@mbork.pl> (message from Marcin Borkowski on Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:13:37 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205286 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I'll try to stop, but for the last time: they are not "bundled" from the > user's POV!!! Yes they are bundled from a user's point of view. They are documented as a single bundle called "Org mode" which can do many different things. They are also bundled in implementation, and the code would be clearer if they were separated in a modular way. These are two different problems. Perhaps a single redesign could fix them both. > > This feature seems to make sense, but I don't see that it does something > > useful for me. > Well, it does something useful for a lot of people. I am sure that is true, but that is not the issue. When I said > This feature seems to make sense, but I don't see that it does something > useful for me. I said it in the context of a particular argument. You said > > > By typing one or more asterisks followed by space at the beginning of > > > a line, you start a heading (like in vanilla Emacs' Outline mode). > > > By pressing TAB when point is on a headline, you cycle through various > > > possible visibility states. and I responded that this is not useful for me. You seemed to take that as an attempt to prove that "Org mode is not useful", but that's not what I am arguing for. We are failing to communicate. Perhaps you think I am arguing that "Org mode is no good." However, my conclusion is something else. This outline visibility feature seems to be the basic feature of Org mode. When I read about how to use Org mode, I saw things I wasn't interested in, followed by more things I wasn't interested in. After a while I got tired of spending time on it, so I didn't read any more, and didn't try to actually use Org mode. If there are other features in Org mode which I might find useful, I didn't learn how to use them, because I had given up on reading before I got to them. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.