From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Differences between Org-Mode and Hyperbole Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:34:51 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467210938 22460 80.91.229.3 (29 Jun 2016 14:35:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 14:35:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eric S Fraga Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 29 16:35:30 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bIGaL-0007UR-B6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:35:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44156 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIGaK-00078T-6J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:35:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37977) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIGaB-0006zy-DP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:35:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIGa4-0000XK-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:35:14 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49664) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bIGZv-0000SD-7R; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:34:59 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bIGZn-0000oJ-N4; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 10:34:52 -0400 In-reply-to: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> (message from Eric S Fraga on Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:23:06 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:204924 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Because the various subfeatures of Org mode were designed inside Org mode, they turn Org mode into a separate editor within Emacs. > Indeed. Pragmatic approach. It may be lacking in design, although much > has been rewritten over the years, more recently by Nicolas, but it > works and works very well. It must be good to use, to have so many users. But that's a different issue. These submodes should be designed so that they individually fit into Emacs. > > That may be true, but I stand by what I said. > > It is fine to have a structured editing mode, but it was > > bad design to make other facilities depend on it in this way. > But it is the structure that provides the basis for those facilities? Since I don't know Org mode, I don't know what you mean by this statement. "The basis" has various possible meanings and I can't tell what you mean. The reason I don't know Org mode is that I'd have to start by learning basic Org mode, which I am not interested in, before I see what its specific features are. At that point, I gave up. In any case, there are many Emacs facilities that use other Emacs facilities and avoid causing this kind of problem. I am sure it would be possible to define a structure editing library package and have various modes use it. These modes would have a similarity, but you would be able to learn any one of them on its own. Indeed, if you learned two of them, you'd see a similarity, and that similarity might be called "Orgmode". Nothing wrong with that. It would avoid the problem that Org mode has now. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.