bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

tomas@tuxteam.de writes:

> Please find the current incarnation here:
>
>   git http://tuxteam.de/~tomas/Repositories/am
>
> Some remarks:
>
> Design:
>
> The idea is to support (nested) mark-ups like XML or Wiki, rendering
> them in a more-or-less WYSIWYG fashion (as far as Emacs supports that).
> The mapping between the markup elements and rendering whithin Emacs is
> done via a "style" file (which is at the moment just an elisp file
> containing faces and assorted fix-ups for special cases. Several
> examples of style files are contained in the above code sample.
>
> The markup model is more or less what we know from XML: spans of text
> are attached with a "markup class" and a (possibly empty) list of
> attributes. Those spans may be empty (the "singletons" in XML).

I think there's several of these markup modes in Emacs (and in the
various package repos), so I don't think this is that relevant any more
(seven years later).  Closing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> The markup model is more or less what we know from XML: spans of text
>> are attached with a "markup class" and a (possibly empty) list of
>> attributes. Those spans may be empty (the "singletons" in XML).

> I think there's several of these markup modes in Emacs (and in the various
> package repos), so I don't think this is that relevant any more (seven years
> later). Closing.

Isn't this very similar to what enriched-mode tried to be?

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

[tomas]

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On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:18:05PM -0800, John Wiegley wrote:
> >>>>> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> 
> >> The markup model is more or less what we know from XML: spans of text
> >> are attached with a "markup class" and a (possibly empty) list of
> >> attributes. Those spans may be empty (the "singletons" in XML).
> 
> > I think there's several of these markup modes in Emacs (and in the various
> > package repos), so I don't think this is that relevant any more (seven years
> > later). Closing.
> 
> Isn't this very similar to what enriched-mode tried to be?

It had a more general scope: the idea was to have a "pluggable" storage
representation, and the markup itself was "abstract" in the sense that
each "marked-up span of text", aka "element" in (rough) XML parlance,
could have an arbitrary attribute list associated with it.

But this has since been (nearly) superseded with far more powerful
ideas, org-mode being one. While coming from another side, it actually
covers much of what am tried to do, and a myriad of other things
too. And much better at that.

I still think there's a place for something along the lines of am
(think representing and editing *losslessly* a pre-existing markup [1]
while trying to show it to the user in a friendly way), but had I
to do it, I'd pull my lessons from there and reboot.

The repo still exists, for the curious :-)

- - - - -
[1] as long as it's hierarchical; I agonized a lot around this
    limitation (Emacs overlays are not hierarchical, and this
    opens up a lot of possibilities). Actually I hoped for some
    discussion on that point.

regards
- -- tomás
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bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Enriched-mode was meant to be a way to store files with
markup, that Emacs would display with markup.  The idea
was to make Emacs serve as a word processor.

Ultimately, we should not need LibreOffice -- we should be able
to do that with Emacs.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

[tomas]

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On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 08:34:22AM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> Enriched-mode was meant to be a way to store files with
> markup, that Emacs would display with markup.  The idea
> was to make Emacs serve as a word processor.

Yes, I get that. And am was a stab at an "abstraction" of that, kind
of a "meta" markup mode. Programmer's hubris, in a way :-)

> Ultimately, we should not need LibreOffice -- we should be able
> to do that with Emacs.

Ultimately, I don't need it (except as a way to communicate to
others, that is). I'm extremely happy with org mode (much happier
than I could ever be with LibreOffice).

Still I'm infinitely happy LibreOffice exists: the cultural gap
between editors and "word processors" is so huge at the moment
that someone has to bridge it. And hey, it's Free Software!

So this is a toast to all those hard-working LibreOffice folks:
although I'm not your typical user -- thanks for your dedication!

So -- uh -- just thanks. Thanks to all the hard-working Free
Software folks, especially to you, Richard.

regards
- -- t
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bug#1397: RFC: A "markup mode"

[tomas]

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On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 03:26:03PM +1100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> tomas@tuxteam.de writes:
> 
> > Please find the current incarnation here:
> >
> >   git http://tuxteam.de/~tomas/Repositories/am

[...]

> > The markup model is more or less what we know from XML: spans of text
> > are attached with a "markup class" and a (possibly empty) list of
> > attributes. Those spans may be empty (the "singletons" in XML).
> 
> I think there's several of these markup modes in Emacs (and in the
> various package repos), so I don't think this is that relevant any more
> (seven years later).  Closing.

I agree with you closing it. Things have evolved quite a bit, and the
proposal didn't generate enough discussion.

Thanks for taking care of it!

regards
- -- tomás
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