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From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org>
Cc: xfq.free@gmail.com, john@yates-sheets.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Move to a cadence release model?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:35:15 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1Zx0SZ-0007wp-0C@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJnXXoi0_zAJqMUDN+gB8arRJEkbpkqn6y53HS9qm4Sw2C6V2Q@mail.gmail.com> (message from John Yates on Tue, 10 Nov 2015 20:55:59 -0500)

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  >   The important part of all of these review cultures is that work
  > _must_ be presented in reviewable units.

I am not quite sure what that would mean, concretely, for Emacs.

Currently, we install a new feature as a whole.  That can be large;
perhaps not a "reviewable unit".  If so, what would we do instead?
Install small parts of the code one by one?

The problem is, they won't actually do anything by themselves.
And we won't be able to see their interactions with the rest of Emacs features
and usage patterns, until the whole thing is installed.

  > Re current pattern of 6 month code freeze: This seems to be a manifestation
  > of that fact that once a sufficient collection of new features have been
  > accumulated we recognize in our heart of hearts that our code is not ready
  > for release.

And some of the new features or changes won't work in combination with
various other existing features.

There are so many features in Emacs, so many use cases and
interactions, that we don't know how to test that a new feature works
the way users would like in all cases.  It may not even be clear what
behavior users would like in all of them.

It comes down to a question of what "reviewable unit" means.  That we
can study the code of the feature for bugs?  That's what we do now for
the whole new feature.  That we can determine whether it interacts
badly with anything else?  I don't see how we can do that, no small the
parts are.

Have I missed the point somehow?


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.




  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-11-12 22:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 139+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-10 13:57 Move to a cadence release model? John Yates
2015-11-10 14:28 ` John Wiegley
2015-11-10 16:42   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 17:03     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  0:17       ` Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Stephen Leake
2015-11-11  0:24         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  3:45         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 10:45           ` Stephen Leake
2015-11-11 15:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 20:39               ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: " Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 20:50                 ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:03                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 21:06                     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:14                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:10                 ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: Re: Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:15                   ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, John Wiegley
2015-11-11 21:27                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:23                   ` Too few people taking care of bug reports, was: Re: Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 21:30                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:31                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 21:42                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 21:54                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-11-11 23:06               ` bug policy (was Re: Release process) Stephen Leake
2015-11-12 16:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 16:39                   ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 17:36                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 17:50                       ` John Wiegley
2015-11-12 18:04                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 16:39             ` Release process (was Re: Move to a cadence release model?) John Wiegley
2015-11-12  8:19               ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-17  0:09                 ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-12  8:15             ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-10 14:32 ` Move to a cadence release model? Alan Mackenzie
2015-11-10 17:13   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 17:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 17:37   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-11-10 17:44     ` Automate Emacs UI testing? (was: Move to a cadence release model?) John Wiegley
2015-11-10 18:01       ` Automate Emacs UI testing? Ashton Kemerling
2015-11-10 18:02       ` Automate Emacs UI testing? (was: Move to a cadence release model?) Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-10 19:16       ` Automate Emacs UI testing? joakim
2015-11-10 19:37         ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11 16:59         ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-11 17:18           ` joakim
2015-11-11 23:27             ` Richard Stallman
2015-11-12  2:26               ` official Emacs Docker image (was: Automate Emacs UI testing?) Ted Zlatanov
2015-11-12 15:49                 ` official Emacs Docker image Nic Ferrier
2015-11-12 21:01                   ` Ricardo Wurmus
2015-11-12 22:31                 ` official Emacs Docker image (was: Automate Emacs UI testing?) Richard Stallman
2015-11-12 23:32                   ` official Emacs Docker image joakim
2016-07-06 15:22                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-07-07 21:56                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-08 13:36                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-07-09 16:54                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-09 23:04                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-07-10 14:25                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-12 22:45                             ` John Wiegley
2016-07-13 13:12                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-07-13 16:34                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-30  0:10                                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-30  0:53                                     ` John Wiegley
2016-12-30 21:36                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-30 22:01                                         ` joakim
2016-12-30 22:08                                         ` John Wiegley
2016-12-31 18:25                                           ` Richard Stallman
2017-01-27 14:56                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-01-27 19:45                                               ` Filipe Silva
2017-01-30 14:36                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-01-30 17:10                                                 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-30 17:44                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-01-31  0:14                                                     ` Filipe Silva
2017-01-31 14:32                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-01  3:03                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-01 15:25                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-02  2:53                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-02  5:13                                                               ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-02 14:21                                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-03  7:00                                                                 ` Stefan Reichör
2017-02-03 11:18                                                                   ` Filipe Silva
2017-02-04  2:56                                                                     ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-03 13:45                                                                   ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-03 21:59                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-03 23:38                                                                       ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-03 23:54                                                                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-02-04  0:37                                                                           ` Filipe Silva
2017-02-04  1:12                                                                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-02-04  1:32                                                                               ` Filipe Silva
2017-02-04 23:52                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-05  0:24                                                                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2017-02-04 23:54                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-04  3:11                                                                         ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-04  4:13                                                                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-04  4:47                                                                             ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-06 10:49                                                                               ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2017-02-13  8:37                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-13  9:55                                                                                   ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2017-02-14  0:48                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-14  2:07                                                                                       ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-14  2:04                                                                                 ` Mike Gerwitz
2017-02-04 23:54                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-05  0:47                                                                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-02-04 23:48                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2017-01-28  2:18                                               ` Richard Stallman
2017-02-21 15:01                                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-02 15:03                                                 ` Ted Zlatanov
2017-03-03 10:09                                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-03 10:15                                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-08 20:30                                                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-03-13 10:03                                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2018-04-04 18:33                                                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-31 22:04                                         ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-01  5:39                                           ` Elias Mårtenson
2017-01-01  9:03                                             ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-01 10:15                                               ` Elias Mårtenson
2017-01-06 15:56                                                 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2017-01-07 23:19                                                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-31  1:22                                       ` Yann Hodique
2016-12-31  2:08                                         ` John Wiegley
2017-01-28 11:06                                       ` Alex Bennée
2016-12-31 10:11                                     ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-07-13 14:41                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2015-11-12 11:36         ` Automate Emacs UI testing? Mathieu Lirzin
2015-11-12 11:43           ` joakim
2015-11-10 18:20 ` Move to a cadence release model? Richard Stallman
2015-11-10 23:50   ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-10 23:58     ` John Wiegley
2015-11-11  1:55       ` John Yates
2015-11-11  9:02         ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-11 15:37         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 22:35         ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2015-11-11 15:49       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 11:27         ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-12 16:22           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12 16:44             ` Stelian Iancu
2015-11-12 16:57               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-11 15:48     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-12  7:23       ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-12  7:37         ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-11-12 16:15         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-20  3:02 ` Stefan Monnier

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