From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:06:41 -0500 Message-ID: References: <5288A59E.7030109@dancol.org> <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mwl04w3k.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <87iovo4caz.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <878uvmoypl.fsf@dod.no> <871u1by9xz.fsf@Rainer.invalid> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1387315686 4566 80.91.229.3 (17 Dec 2013 21:28:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 21:28:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Achim Gratz Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 17 22:28:17 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt2Ba-0000O2-RT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 22:28:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35707 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt2Ba-00026f-D9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:28:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33859) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt1qm-0003W6-5v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:06:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt1qk-0005lo-MX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:06:44 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45507) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt1qk-0005l2-9C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:06:42 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vt1qj-00035j-EV; Tue, 17 Dec 2013 16:06:41 -0500 In-reply-to: <871u1by9xz.fsf@Rainer.invalid> (message from Achim Gratz on Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:48:56 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:166559 Archived-At: [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > If so, maybe it should not do so. Maybe the state of folding should be > saved in the file, so that when the file is read in again, > it will be folded or unfolded the same as when it was viewed before. In the absence of such information it has to fall back on the default, however. > Or maybe the default should be "Initially totally unfolded". A mode derived from Org would perhaps need to chose different defaults, but for Org the default of folding the outline is appropriate. For outlines, the default might be appropriate. It follows that Org mode, as such, is not right for documents such as this. Telling the users, "Customize Org mode yourself" is unhelpful. Providing a derived mode with different defaults might be helpful. To me it seems the discussion about Org has somehow drifted from the original request in this thread. Org has been mentioned as a format that Emacs already understands and can produce different output formats from. It is not, in its current form, intended to do WYSIWYG editing even though it might arguably form the basis for such a mode. I agree. I'm considering Org mode as a way to edit formatted documents, which might be better than Text mode even though not WYSIWYG. But it needs minor changes to be good for this purpose. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation 51 Franklin St Boston MA 02110 USA www.fsf.org www.gnu.org Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.