From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Carsten Mattner <carstenmattner@googlemail.com>
Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Periodical releases
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 06:36:16 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1RhgBc-0001b4-Qz@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CACY+Hvqvj867JSPZ7rwncB2ZPDEpwsy=7yWEC2s2kxT5fszO1g@mail.gmail.com> (message from Carsten Mattner on Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:40:20 +0100)
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 11:40:20 +0100
> From: Carsten Mattner <carstenmattner@googlemail.com>
> Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>
> > These are fairly significant structural changes which are difficult to
> > perform piecemeal and tend to introduce significant breakage which takes
> > months if not years to test&debug (maybe partly for lack of a good
> > regression test suite, but also because of very complex semantics, most
> > of which is the result of accidental interferences between
> > "independent" features).
>
> The solution for that is to let it evolve in a branch for longer than
> one release cycle
Been there, done that. In Emacs, this generally means leave the code
to bit-rot into oblivion. Examples:
. The person who wrote the multi-tty code disappeared after merging
the branch onto the trunk; if we would have waited longer with the
merge, we would have no one who knew the code enough to merge it
and take care of merge complications.
. The bidi branch actually did bitrot, for at least 3 years, until
yours truly decided it was now or never, and somehow managed to
find time to do the job. Knowing now how much effort it took, I
can assure you that work would never have been done had Stefan and
Chong not supported me all the way and urged me to merge early. A
year from now, I cannot even promise I will have enough time and
health left to do anything comparable.
> That way finished features like say package support, built-in colour
> theme support, cc-mode and other mode updates, etc., which are less
> invasive, are delivered in a stable release faster.
That's a nice theory, but implementing it in practice needs a much
larger and probably different organization than Emacs development we
have now. Unlike many other projects, Emacs is a hodgepodge of a
myriad of separate and almost independent subsystems, many of which
require very specific domain knowledge and target different audiences,
sometimes quite narrow ones. Exposing significant changes to a wide
audience is perhaps the only practical way of testing those changes
efficiently; leaving them on a branch would mean features remain
largely untested (read: buggy) for many months if not years.
If we want to move in the direction of periodical releases, we will
have to come up with a plan that includes organizational and
procedural changes, and we will have to convince ourselves that such a
plan is doable in practice. First step in the plan should be to bring
much more developers on board.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-01-02 11:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-12-31 12:00 Periodical releases Carsten Mattner
2012-01-01 22:41 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-01-02 10:40 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-02 11:36 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2012-01-02 12:57 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-02 17:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-01-02 19:05 ` Drew Adams
2012-01-02 19:54 ` chad
2012-01-02 21:36 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-02 20:29 ` Eric Schulte
2012-01-02 21:31 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-02 20:41 ` Lluís
2012-01-02 21:23 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-02 22:14 ` Drew Adams
2012-01-02 22:27 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-05 2:34 ` Dave Abrahams
2012-01-05 2:58 ` Chong Yidong
2012-01-05 3:36 ` Dave Abrahams
2012-01-05 4:23 ` Óscar Fuentes
2012-01-05 13:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-01-05 13:41 ` Dave Abrahams
2012-01-05 9:31 ` Bastien
2012-01-05 10:11 ` Leo
2012-01-05 11:31 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-05 12:56 ` Jambunathan K
2012-01-05 14:00 ` Leo
2012-01-05 14:30 ` Jambunathan K
2012-01-05 11:28 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-05 14:18 ` Eric Schulte
2012-01-05 11:33 ` Carsten Mattner
2012-01-05 5:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-01-05 12:20 ` Dave Abrahams
2012-01-05 15:34 ` Drew Adams
2012-01-03 22:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-01-03 18:18 ` What's in a feature? (was: Periodical releases) Bastien
2012-01-04 3:24 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-01-04 10:03 ` What's in a feature? Bastien
2012-01-04 12:43 ` Juanma Barranquero
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