From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Git mirrors Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:25:28 -0400 Message-ID: References: <8762k095n4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871uuksdxi.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lissh32y.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87zkh8e286.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87d3e4gttq.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ehyjrhxh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d3e2rfte.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <878voqfiaw.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87zkh4bhho.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87zkh4nrcr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87zkh0ozjz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318839961 22648 80.91.229.12 (17 Oct 2011 08:26:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:26:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, lekktu@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 17 10:25:54 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RFiW9-0000Ux-F6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:25:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37432 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RFiW9-0001h1-0Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:25:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:59639) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RFiW2-0001YA-7M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:25:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RFiVu-000149-Kn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:25:46 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:54374) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RFiVu-000145-JJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:25:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RFiVk-0004GB-24; Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:25:28 -0400 In-reply-to: <87zkh0ozjz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.10 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:145245 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:19:28 +0900 > Cc: Óscar Fuentes , rms@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Juanma Barranquero writes: > > > > In actual practice, I don't think that's true.  Witness the complexity > > > of BzrForEmacsDevs on the Emacs wiki. > > > > Complexity? That page is almost sufficient to use Bazaar to develop > > Emacs. "git help log" is several times longer. > > Different purposes; git help provides reference documentation, while > bzr help is just verbose usage messages. I can tell you that writing > that BzrForEmacsDevs took not only a lot of reading of "bzr help" > pages, but also Bazaar website browsing, Googling for other docs, and > even experimentation with toy repos because the bzr help is horribly > imprecise and often just plain incomplete. Bazaar's docs really "need work®", but that doesn't mean git's don't. In particular, being precise and complete doesn't necessarily mean being helpful to a casual user. See, for example http://netsplit.com/2009/02/17/git-sucks/ Try disregarding its obvious exaggeration and disgust, and just _read_ the portions of the man pages reproduced there. I often find myself in a similar conundrum, even though I never needed to do something as complex as publish a branch. > > We can go daily working in Emacs without requiring a huge expertise > > in bazaar. > > That is true for a subset of Emacs developers. But this is > *obviously* a *proper* subset. For other Emacs developers, their > daily workflows require a more powerful VCS. Otherwise they would not > go to the trouble of maintaining multiple personal git and Arch > repositories, or trying to improve the Savannah git repo for Emacs. That could well be out of habit, though. Since the semantics and the effects of most popular bzr commands are subtly different from their git namesakes, and since the underlying models of the distributed version control are also subtly different, I can understand how people who have git wired into their minds and fingers become mad with bzr. I understand that because I'm mad with git for the same reasons.