From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Locks on the Bzr repository Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:06:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4C6D56DB.7040703@swipnet.se> <4C6D8EC5.7040901@swipnet.se> <4C6E1F0A.7070506@swipnet.se> <837hjlr78p.fsf@gnu.org> <87zkwhtws5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83tymppj62.fsf@gnu.org> <871v9t8klf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83lj81pazq.fsf@gnu.org> <83aaogpcbu.fsf@gnu.org> <87vd737pxd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83pqxboi38.fsf@gnu.org> <19568.59349.718000.978281@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1282540018 20878 80.91.229.12 (23 Aug 2010 05:06:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 05:06:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 23 07:06:57 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OnPFH-0004pD-E2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 07:06:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51792 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OnPFG-0001dt-Pm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:06:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48439 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OnPFA-0001dm-Pn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:06:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OnPF9-0001Wj-2g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:06:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:48817) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1OnPF8-0001We-Rs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:06:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OnPF3-00047u-9j; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 01:06:41 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:24:49 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:129060 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:24:49 -0400 > Cc: u.s.reddy@cs.bham.ac.uk, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Reply-To: rms@gnu.org > > If Bazaar is a "gnu project", can FSF lean on them to produce a > proper integrated rebase? > > I can try -- but first I need a clear and self-contained description > of the problem. Is the problem solely one of occasional unpredictable > failures? No. The problem is that the SFTP protocol we use to access the repository on Savannah needs a very high network throughput to be reasonably fast. When I work on fencepost.gnu.org (a rare situation these days), it takes between 5 and 30 seconds to either update the tree from the master repository or commit a set of changes, which is reasonably fast. But when I'm doing that from home, where I have a 3.5Mb link, it takes 3 to 5 _minutes_, which is terribly slow for such a fast link. The occasional failures due to locks are on top of that; coupled with the generally very slow operation, it makes the situation just barely bearable. Others had even worse experiences. For example, Jason reported that a commit of a few lines worth of changes took around 30 minutes. We are told that switching to the bzr+ssh protocol should make things much better. So making this switch is the highest priority now, I think. If that is not good enough, either, we could take it up with the Bazaar maintainers, but as long as we use SFTP, they continue to claim that the protocol is to blame for the slow operation. See the on-going discussion re: "Setting up bzr+ssh on Savannah" on savannah-hackers-public mailing list for similar problems experienced by other GNU projects that use bzr. Some of the package maintainers recently threatened in that discussion to take their repositories elsewhere or switch to some other VCS, because bzr support on Savannah seems to be abysmally inadequate.