bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Warren L Dodge]

Reading the GNU Emacs Manual and found a couple sentances that have
something wrong with them.

In the 4.1 Inserting Text section


If the radix is greater than 10, some letters starting with `a' serve as
part of a character code, just like digits.                  ^
                                                             ^
Not sure but it seems something is wrong here ---------------^ Maybe is
should be 'a'-'f'. Anyway it doesn't seem to read as I would think.


   Instead of `C-q', you can use `C-x 8 <RET>' (`ucs-insert') to insert
a character based on its Unicode name or code-point.  This commands
prompts for a character to insert, ...

The word commands should be command I believe.             ^^^^^^^



In GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.6)
 of 2010-05-24 on zephyr
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.60802000
configured using `configure  '--prefix=/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2' '--disable-nls''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: C
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: C
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: nil
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Info

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: (only . t)

Recent input:
<escape> C-g <help> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> 
<help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> 
<help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> 
<menu-bar> <help-menu> <search-documentation> <lookup-subject-in-emacs-manual> 
<help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> 
<help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> 
<help-echo> <menu-bar> <help-menu> <emacs-manual> s 
s t a r t i n g SPC w i t h SPC a SPC s e r v e <return> 
s i n s e r t i n g <return> <help-echo> m <return> 
<help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <down-mouse-5> 
<mouse-5> <down-mouse-5> <mouse-5> <down-mouse-5> <mouse-5> 
<down-mouse-5> <mouse-5> <double-down-mouse-5> <double-mouse-5> 
<triple-down-mouse-5> <triple-mouse-5> <triple-down-mouse-5> 
<triple-mouse-5> <down-mouse-4> <mouse-4> <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-movement> <mouse-movement> <drag-mouse-1> <down-mouse-3> 
<drag-mouse-3> <escape> x e m a c s - b <tab> <escape> 
<backspace> <escape> <backspace> <escape> <backspace> 
b u <tab> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> 
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> r e 
p o <tab> r <tab> <return>

Recent messages:
Searching subfile emacs-2...
Searching subfile emacs-3...
Searching subfile emacs-4...
Searching subfile emacs-5...
Searching subfile emacs-6...
Searching subfile emacs-7...
Searching subfile emacs-8...
Info-search: Search failed: "starting with a serve"
byte-code: End of buffer
Making completion list...

Load-path shadows:
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/etach hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/etach-1.4.1/etach
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/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/common/ezimage hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/ezimage
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/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/verilog-mode hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/progmodes/verilog-mode
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/eieio/eieio-custom hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-custom
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/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/eieio/eieio hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/eieio/eieio-base hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-base
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/eieio/eieio-opt hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-opt
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/eieio/eieio-comp hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-comp
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/common/cedet-files hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/cedet/cedet-files
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/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/common/inversion hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/cedet/inversion
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/common/mode-local hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/cedet/mode-local
/tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/cedet/semantic/semantic hides /tools/wdtgnu/emacs-23.2/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/cedet/semantic
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Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr message sendmail regexp-opt ecomplete rfc822 mml
mml-sec password-cache mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse
rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util
netrc time-date mm-util mail-prsvr gmm-utils wid-edit mailheader canlock
sha1 hex-util hashcash mail-utils emacsbug help-mode view info easymenu
tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd
font-setting tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page
menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mldrag mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang
misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew
greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev loaddefs button
minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties overlay md5 base64
format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote make-network-process dbusbind font-render-setting gtk
x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)

-- 
Warren Dodge,   Application Engineer phone - (503) 627-4888
Tektronix Inc.  MS 39-515            fax   - (503) 627-2528
14180 S.W. Karl Braun Drive          Email - warren.l.dodge@tektronix.com
P.O. Box 500    Beaverton, OR 97077    

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Warren L Dodge <warrend@Tektronix.com>
> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:45:56 -0700
> Cc: 
> 
> If the radix is greater than 10, some letters starting with `a' serve as
> part of a character code, just like digits.                  ^
>                                                              ^
> Not sure but it seems something is wrong here ---------------^ Maybe is
> should be 'a'-'f'. Anyway it doesn't seem to read as I would think.

Emacs supports radix values beyond 16, so a-f is not enough.  It's
actually a-z.

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Warren L Dodge <warrend@Tektronix.com>
>> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:45:56 -0700
>> Cc:
>>
>> If the radix is greater than 10, some letters starting with `a' serve as
>> part of a character code, just like digits.                  ^
>>                                                              ^
>> Not sure but it seems something is wrong here ---------------^ Maybe is
>> should be 'a'-'f'. Anyway it doesn't seem to read as I would think.
>
> Emacs supports radix values beyond 16, so a-f is not enough.  It's
> actually a-z.


I would expect it to be a-w (since then 0-9a-w are 32 "digits").

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:05:45 +0200
> Cc: Warren L Dodge <warrend@tektronix.com>, 6374@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> >> From: Warren L Dodge <warrend@Tektronix.com>
> >> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:45:56 -0700
> >> Cc:
> >>
> >> If the radix is greater than 10, some letters starting with `a' serve as
> >> part of a character code, just like digits.                  ^
> >>                                                              ^
> >> Not sure but it seems something is wrong here ---------------^ Maybe is
> >> should be 'a'-'f'. Anyway it doesn't seem to read as I would think.
> >
> > Emacs supports radix values beyond 16, so a-f is not enough.  It's
> > actually a-z.
> 
> 
> I would expect it to be a-w (since then 0-9a-w are 32 "digits").

??? What's so magical about the number 32?

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Lennart Borgman]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:05:45 +0200
>> Cc: Warren L Dodge <warrend@tektronix.com>, 6374@debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> >> From: Warren L Dodge <warrend@Tektronix.com>
>> >> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:45:56 -0700
>> >> Cc:
>> >>
>> >> If the radix is greater than 10, some letters starting with `a' serve as
>> >> part of a character code, just like digits.                  ^
>> >>                                                              ^
>> >> Not sure but it seems something is wrong here ---------------^ Maybe is
>> >> should be 'a'-'f'. Anyway it doesn't seem to read as I would think.
>> >
>> > Emacs supports radix values beyond 16, so a-f is not enough.  It's
>> > actually a-z.
>>
>>
>> I would expect it to be a-w (since then 0-9a-w are 32 "digits").
>
> ??? What's so magical about the number 32?

Oh, my misunderstanding. I thought the only interesting radixes where 2**n.

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 05:50, Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, my misunderstanding. I thought the only interesting radixes where 2**n.

Duodecimal is quite an interesting system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodecimal

and 12 is not a power of 2.

    Juanma

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Glenn Morris]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Emacs supports radix values beyond 16, so a-f is not enough.  It's
> actually a-z.

Is the doc-string of read-quoted-char-radix (which is what the manual
section in question is talking about) wrong then? It says:

  Legitimate radix values are 8, 10 and 16

These are also the only choices allowed when customizing
read-quoted-char-radix.

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Andreas Schwab]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Is the doc-string of read-quoted-char-radix (which is what the manual
> section in question is talking about) wrong then? It says:
>
>   Legitimate radix values are 8, 10 and 16
>
> These are also the only choices allowed when customizing
> read-quoted-char-radix.

read-quoted-char-radix != lisp reader.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: Warren L Dodge <warrend@Tektronix.com>,  6374@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 01:08:35 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Emacs supports radix values beyond 16, so a-f is not enough.  It's
> > actually a-z.
> 
> Is the doc-string of read-quoted-char-radix (which is what the manual
> section in question is talking about) wrong then?

No, it's not wrong.

>   Legitimate radix values are 8, 10 and 16
> 
> These are also the only choices allowed when customizing
> read-quoted-char-radix.

I don't think we should rewrite the manual for a simple extension of
the current capabilities, when it is done.  The Lisp reader already
supports any radix up to 36.  So the intentionally vague language in
the manual seems fine to me.

bug#6374: 23.2; manual language fixes

[Glenn Morris]

Corrected these issues, thanks.