From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r99650: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX. Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:56 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83pr371rl2.fsf@gnu.org> <873a03pmgn.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20100314093329.GA1362@muc.de> <87aaua3a5c.fsf@telefonica.net> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268689634 8628 80.91.229.12 (15 Mar 2010 21:47:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:47:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 15 22:47:10 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrI7u-0002Ep-As for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:47:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58032 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NrI7t-0006eR-93 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:47:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NrI7o-0006dR-4e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:47:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34514 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NrI7n-0006d9-Q5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NrI7m-0003As-7e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:46760) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NrI7m-0003Ao-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:58 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NrI7k-0004tc-UH; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:56 -0400 In-reply-to: <87aaua3a5c.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= on Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:45:19 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122025 Archived-At: IMHO, if what RMS says about the newcomers' convenience having preference is the definitive criteria (and I think it is a good one) scrollbars should be on the right, where most people expect to see them nowadays and thus decrease the weird/intimidating first impression that Emacs may convey on prospective users. Concern for newcomers does not necessarily mean doing what they EXPECT. It means doing what is useful for them. Their previous expectations are part of that question, but not necessarily the whole of it. It could be useful to ask some fairly new users to try both ways for a few days and see what they prefer. But even that is only part of it, since the real question is what guides them to become better advanced users subsequently. Perhaps what we want to do is teach them not to use the scroll bar any more. If so, putting GTK scroll bars on the right might be good.