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From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:38:41 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1NCfgH-00048l-CC@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvhbsm570g.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:08:28 -0500)

    > Basically, it isn't clear that \361 is a byte rather than a character,
    > and what difference that ought to make, and what you should do
    > if you want to turn it from a byte into a character.

    So how do you suggest we represent the byte 241?

No better way jumps into my mind.  But maybe we could figure out some
way to make the current way easier to understand.

For instance, C-u C-x = on \224 says

	    character: ” (4194196, #o17777624, #x3fff94)
    preferred charset: tis620-2533 (TIS620.2533)
	   code point: 0x94
	       syntax: w 	which means: word
	  buffer code: #x94
	    file code: #x94 (encoded by coding system no-conversion)
	      display: not encodable for terminal

    Character code properties: customize what to show

    [back]

Perhaps it should say, 

	    character: Stray byte ” (4194196, #o17777624, #x3fff94)

What are the situations where a user is likely to see these stray
bytes.  When visiting a binary file, of course; but in that situation,
nobody will be surprised or disappointed.  So what are the other
cases, and what might the user really want instead?  Does it mean the
user probably wants to do M-x decode-coding-region?  If so, can we find a way
to give the user that hint?

When I click on tis620-2533 in that output, I get this

    Character set: tis620-2533

    TIS620.2533

    Number of contained characters: 256
    ASCII compatible.
    Code space: [0 255]

    [back]

which is totally unhelpful.  What is this character set's main
purpose?  Does it exist specifically for stray non-ASCII bytes?
If so, saying so here would help.  If not -- if it has some other
purpose -- then it would be good to explain both purposes here.

Also, if it exists for these stray non-ASCII bytes, why does it have
256 chars in it?  There are only 128 possible stray non-ASCII bytes.

(It is also not clear to me what "ASCII compatible" means in this
context.)




  reply	other threads:[~2009-11-23 20:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-11-18 19:12 [acm@muc.de: Re: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.] Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19  1:27 ` Fwd: Re: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19  8:20   ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19  8:50     ` Miles Bader
2009-11-19 10:16     ` Fwd: " Andreas Schwab
2009-11-19 12:21       ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 13:21       ` Jason Rumney
2009-11-19 13:35         ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 14:18         ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 14:58           ` Jason Rumney
2009-11-19 15:42             ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 19:39               ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 15:30           ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 15:58             ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 16:06               ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-19 16:47               ` Aidan Kehoe
2009-11-19 17:29                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 18:21                   ` Aidan Kehoe
2009-11-20  2:43                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-19 19:45                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 20:07                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 19:55                 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-20  3:13                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-19 16:55               ` David Kastrup
2009-11-19 18:08                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 19:25                   ` Davis Herring
2009-11-19 21:25                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 22:31                       ` David Kastrup
2009-11-21 22:52                         ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-23  2:08                           ` Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.) Stefan Monnier
2009-11-23 20:38                             ` Richard Stallman [this message]
2009-11-23 21:34                               ` Per Starbäck
2009-11-24 22:47                                 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-25  1:33                                   ` Kenichi Handa
2009-11-25  2:29                                     ` Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly Stefan Monnier
2009-11-25  2:50                                       ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-25  6:25                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-25  5:40                                     ` Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.) Ulrich Mueller
2009-11-26 22:59                                       ` Displaying bytes Reiner Steib
2009-11-27  0:16                                         ` Ulrich Mueller
2009-11-27  1:41                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-27  4:14                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-25  5:59                                     ` Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.) Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-25  8:16                                       ` Kenichi Handa
2009-11-29 16:01                                     ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-29 16:31                                       ` Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly Stefan Monnier
2009-11-29 22:01                                         ` Juri Linkov
2009-11-30  6:05                                           ` tomas
2009-11-30 12:09                                             ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-30 12:39                                               ` tomas
2009-11-29 22:19                                       ` Displaying bytes (was: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen.) Kim F. Storm
2009-11-30  1:42                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-24  1:28                               ` Displaying bytes Stefan Monnier
2009-11-24 22:47                                 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-25  2:18                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-26  6:24                                     ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-26  8:59                                       ` David Kastrup
2009-11-26 14:57                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-26 16:28                                         ` Lennart Borgman
2009-11-27  6:36                                         ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-24 22:47                                 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-20  8:48                       ` Fwd: Re: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 19:52                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 20:53                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 22:16                       ` David Kastrup
2009-11-20  8:55                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 20:05                   ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 21:27                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 19:43               ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-11-19 21:57                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2009-11-19 23:10                   ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 20:02               ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 14:08     ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 14:50       ` Jason Rumney
2009-11-19 15:27         ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-19 23:12           ` Miles Bader
2009-11-20  2:16             ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-20  3:37             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-20  4:30               ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-20  7:18                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-20 14:16                   ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-21  4:13                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21  5:24                       ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-21  6:42                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21  6:49                           ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-21  7:27                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-23  1:58                               ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-21 12:33                           ` David Kastrup
2009-11-21 13:55                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 14:36                               ` David Kastrup
2009-11-21 17:53                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2009-11-21 23:30                                   ` David Kastrup
2009-11-22  1:27                                     ` Sebastian Rose
2009-11-22  8:06                                       ` David Kastrup
2009-11-22 23:52                                         ` Sebastian Rose
2009-11-19 17:08       ` Fwd: " Alan Mackenzie

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