From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mode line documentation in Emacs manual fails. Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20081208124954.GA4139@muc.de> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1228744941 1496 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2008 14:02:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:02:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 08 15:03:25 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1L9ghY-0000kY-43 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 15:03:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39560 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L9ggN-0007Dz-9n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L9ggF-0007Dg-P7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:47 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1L9ggE-0007DM-17 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:46 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46047 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1L9ggD-0007DF-S4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:45 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:58443) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1L9ggD-00089h-Bz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1L9gff-0000la-2v; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:01:11 -0500 In-reply-to: <20081208124954.GA4139@muc.de> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:49:54 +0000) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:106674 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:49:54 +0000 > From: Alan Mackenzie > > Hi, Emacs! > > Sorry to be so negative, but I see this on a mode line on a text-only > terminal: > > -111:---F4 31n/diff-bug-dir.sh All L7 C0 (Shell-script[bash])----P202/810 > > What does the "-111:-" bit mean? OK, I could certainly work it out from > the manual, but this working out is arduous indeed. On manual page > "Mode Line": > > CS describes the character set of the buffer (see Coding > Systems). If it is a dash (`-'), that indicates the default state of > affairs: no special character set handling, except for the end-of-line > translations described in the next paragraph. `=' means no conversion > whatsoever. Letters represent various nontrivial "coding systems"--for > example, `1' represents ISO Latin-1. On a text-only terminal, CS is > preceded by two additional characters that describe the coding system > for keyboard input and the coding system for terminal output. > Furthermore, if you are using an input method, CS is preceded by a > string that identifies the input method, which takes the form `I>', > `I+', or `I@' (see Input Methods). > > "`1' represents ISO Latin-1". Is this the left `1', the middle `1', or > the right `1'? All of them, of course, since the ones are identical. But this sentence talks about the rightmost one, of course (unless you are willing to argue that ``preceded by'' is ambiguous because no one said the text has left to right direction ;-). > "On a text-only terminal, CS is preceded by two additional characters > that describe the coding system for keyboard input and the coding system > for terminal output". This is surely wrong. These two additional > characters are part of CS, aren't they? No, CS is a description only of the buffer's character set (a.k.a. buffer-file-coding-system), and the manual spells that correctly. > I think my greatest difficulty is picking out the CS field from the rest > of the mode line. The text is confused as to whether the ":" is part of > the CS field or not. "If it is a dash (`-') ...." is very squidgy, > because the field is (?sometimes?) preceded by a dash. Why is the > default "-" character the same as the content-free leader character? Because `-' is a gap-filling character, used where we have nothing special to say. > "The CS string and the colon character after it describe the character > set .....". How does the colon character aid in this description? It describes the EOL format, which is traditionally viewed as part of the encoding (not just by Emacs). > I think there's too much woffle in this section, e.g. "Normally, Emacs > handles these settings intelligently, but it is sometimes useful to have > this information" doesn't seem to say anything much. It explains why we put such obscure information in the user manual. Patches to improve this part of the manual are more than welcome. By the way, is there something specific in this section that is unclear? If so, please tell what that is.