From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: nospam@dev.null (Alexey Pustyntsev) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:37:50 +1100 Message-ID: References: <87ljxoffs6.fsf@atthis.clsnet.nl> <71208e97-140c-445d-8eda-1705f11b14b3@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <095ef0c0-c7f4-494d-8bf6-8a5ee43fd934@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <3c61c357-0705-4ff4-b793-fa6827415fdd@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com> <4fr5r5-jnp.ln1@invalid.net> <7d4066c0-df52-4b06-b206-03e805df2192@a18g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <87fxni7yq1.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1222781342 3123 80.91.229.12 (30 Sep 2008 13:29:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:29:02 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 30 15:30:00 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KkfIV-0006nW-LX for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:29:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46581 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KkfHS-0004eX-K3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:28:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KkfH8-0004dh-MB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:28:26 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KkfH3-0004ct-62 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:28:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33834 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KkfH2-0004cp-W6 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:28:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.242.74.155] (port=46243 helo=sycore.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KkfH2-0007kK-Bc for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:28:20 -0400 Original-Received: by sycore.org (Postfix, from userid 8) id 9CFDB9BF19; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:28:17 +0400 (MSD) Original-Received: from sycore.org (h091147011198.ys.dsl.sakhalin.ru [91.147.11.198]) by sycore.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05DB9BEF1 for ; Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:28:14 +0400 (MSD) Original-Received: from alexey by sycore.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KkfQE-00089t-Ru for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:37:50 +1100 User-Agent: Gnus/5.10 Emacs/22.1 In-Reply-To: <87fxni7yq1.fsf@gmail.com> (Paul R.'s message of "Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:46:30 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:58229 Archived-At: Hi! Paul R writes: > On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:56:22 -0700, Chetan said: > Chetan> It looks like it is difficult to get everyone to agree on what > Chetan> is needed. Isn't it better to create addons that people can > Chetan> install if they so desire? That way there is no immediate > Chetan> change forced onto the users. The addons that are popular can > Chetan> later be incorporated into main. > > Emacs is the most extensible and the most community-extended software > created ever. This thread is about *defaults*, because defaults drive > user habits, because defaults are why most people stick to a > software I seriously doubt that sticking to highly customizable software is necessarily based on its defaults. > or give up in the first few days, because defaults are the reflect of > an evolving mindset amongst core developers. Considering the people that use Emacs, I think the defaults should be as neutral as possible. Honestly, my first impression of Emacs was rather unfavourable, but I must admit that was exactly due to my habits spoiled by MS mainstream software. However, that didn't bar me from the Emacs users club. Once I started trying to find answers to my questions in the Emacs documentation, it became more and more evident how erroneous my conclusion was. So, I think the best approach to resolve the 'new blood' problem is to focus on **how and what Emacs can do for you** (EmacsWiki is doing good job) than on what its current defaults are. There is no need to worry about the defaults very much. They may be changed, of course, but, actually, there is no problem with them since they are easily customizable. Some people are just making a storm in a teacup. After all, Emacs is not just an editor, it's a whole lisp environment. -- Rgds Alexey Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 55th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3174