From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard M Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:14:40 -0400 Message-ID: References: <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <20080726080304.GA1419@muc.de> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217178945 9442 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2008 17:15:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:15:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Barry Fishman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 27 19:16:34 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KN9rF-0001p7-Jn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:16:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39997 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KN9qK-0001Sq-Vm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:15:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KN9qG-0001RI-CV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:15:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KN9qE-0001Ph-TW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:15:32 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47293 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KN9qE-0001Pd-Qq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:15:30 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:46040) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KN9qE-0005qN-2J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:15:30 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KN9pQ-0007gH-77; Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:14:40 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Barry Fishman on Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:52:18 -0400) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101581 Archived-At: I think you may be loosing sight of some things by still focusing just on gaining freedom. A GNU system now exists that people can use reliably and productively. Many of us prefer it over the proprietary alternatives, even if they were free. Isn't that real freedom. For many of us you have already won. Not very many. Less than 10% of computer users use GNU/Linux, and nearly all of them run non-free software on or in it. The people who have fully rejected nonfree software are few. The FSF seems to behave as if this wasn't true. So much effort still seems to be put into porting prorietary garbage like .NET to GNU, and producing a Gnome windowing environment which has all the faults of MS-Windows. That's what we need in order to enable large numbers of users to escape from freedom-denying proprietary software. Why not make GNOME work more like Emacs. Whats the point of a C based GTK it you don't use it through a Lisp like layer? Why is so much of my Gnome configuration buried in zillions of directories filled with ugly XML files. Why can't I query it with simple REPL? I agree with you there. The sad thing is that GNOME was initially based on Scheme, and it was possible to do these things. They do not listen to me much, so I save my efforts with them for the issues that are essential to our campaign for freedom.