From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard M Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:05:38 -0400 Message-ID: References: <36366a980807101702r5677d096g8e62ef5b3e278868@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807111217m66d6cf4el777c197c107ce034@mail.gmail.com> <87skug6tq5.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <20080714195651.GF3445@muc.de> <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> <87zloggji9.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87sku5hxl9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216591638 28800 80.91.229.12 (20 Jul 2008 22:07:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:07:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, lord@emf.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drobinow@gmail.com, miles@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 21 00:08:06 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KKh4U-0008R3-JD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:08:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41431 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KKh3b-0003YZ-Jn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:07:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KKh2s-0002se-19 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:06:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KKh2r-0002qn-0A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:06:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58563 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KKh2q-0002qe-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:06:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]:57901) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KKh2r-0001CT-0I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:06:21 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KKh2A-0005T9-UL; Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:05:38 -0400 In-reply-to: <87sku5hxl9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (stephen@xemacs.org) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101033 Archived-At: While I don't know off hand of any C programs that use other build control tools, few of the scripting languages and web frameworks do. That has two directly opposite meanings. Few of the scripting languages use other build control tools? Few of the scripting languages use the GNU build control tools? However, the issue I'm concerned with is about interfaces, not implementation. Python has its setup.py and dist-tools, I believe Ruby and Perl have similar build systems, Haskell has its Cabal, and there are a number of more general rivals to the autotools such as Scons which are attracting attention. Would it be possible to put wrappers around these other methods so as to implement the GNU configure and build specs around those other methods? If in "system" you intend to include such applications, then I would have to guess that programs that don't conform to GNU standards for configuration and build are proliferating rapidly. Is this because people are using those other languages in which people tend not to support our specs, or are C programs also increasingly ignoring our specs? I also know of several free software programs for Mac OS X which presumably could be ported to GNUStep, but AFAIK are dependent on Apple's proprietary Xcode tool That is very bad. What are the names of these programs?