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From: Richard M Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
To: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
Cc: acm@muc.de, drobinow@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:54:45 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1KJcN3-0001g1-PZ@fencepost.gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <487C5FA3.4070603@emf.net> (message from Thomas Lord on Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:28:19 -0700)

    It is a failure of the GNU project and of the free software movement
    that there is so much emphasis on monolithic distributions and binary
    package distributions.   It is a failure of the GNU project and the free
    software movement that one so often encounters distros that offer to
    not install source trees and even offer to not install development
    environments.

The words "it is a failure of" are ambiguous.  They could literally
mean "it is a goal we have not achieved", but they also suggest
placing the blame for this on us.

Certainly these are goals we have not achieved, but if others do not
follow our recommendations, that's their decision, not ours.  When I
designed the GNU specs for configuring and building source packages, I
hoped that free software developers generally would adopt them, but
they did not.

I tried at one point to convince XFree86 to support the GNU
configuration spec.  I even found a volunteer to implement that as a
wrapper around their existing configuration mechanism.  But they did
not consider such compatibility very important, and I don't think they
installed this wrapper.

To convince free software projects generally to adopt this spec
would require more pressure from the community in general.

It is easy to call names (such as calling the GNU Coding Standards
"anemic"), but given that many programs' developers won't even
implement those, I doubt we would obtain much compliance for stricter
ones.





  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-07-17 22:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 279+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <36366a980807091202rd3b6521jc9fa45d321bc9d37@mail.gmail.com>
2008-07-11  0:02 ` Emacs vista build failures Eric Hanchrow
2008-07-11 16:49   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-11 19:05     ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 23:33       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12  7:57         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-12 16:35           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 17:21             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-13  9:35               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13  9:46                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-14 11:05                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-11 19:17     ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 20:39       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-11 20:45         ` David Robinow
2008-07-11 20:57           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-12 16:35             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 19:46               ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-12 20:17                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-12 10:49           ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-12 16:35           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-12 20:40             ` David Robinow
2008-07-12 22:47               ` Bastien
2008-07-13 19:10               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13 20:44                 ` Claus
     [not found]                   ` <87tzet8c3i.fsf@offby1.atm01.sea.blarg.net>
2008-07-14  8:43                     ` Claus
2008-07-15  3:06                       ` Eric Hanchrow
2008-07-14 17:38                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-13 20:46               ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-13 21:46                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 21:40                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-13 22:53                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 22:53                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-13 23:46                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-14 10:27                       ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-14 11:58                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 17:39                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 19:33                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 18:04                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-15 20:29                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 21:02                             ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-15 23:42                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-16  1:42                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16  1:58                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-07-16  2:43                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16  3:01                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-16  4:44                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-16  4:43                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-14 10:45                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-14 12:24                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 12:20                           ` joakim
2008-07-14 12:32                             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 18:04                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-13 21:48                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-13 23:26                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-13 23:22                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-14 20:42                         ` Don Armstrong
2008-07-14 21:05                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:36                             ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 15:20                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 22:04                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 21:23                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-16 22:17                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-17  8:31                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-14 22:30                           ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-14 23:54                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-15  1:05                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Miles Bader
2008-07-15  7:11                                 ` Geoffrey Teale
2008-07-15  8:12                                   ` Miles Bader
2008-07-15  9:48                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15  5:58                               ` Ralf Angeli
2008-07-15  6:50                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 18:09                                   ` Ralf Angeli
2008-07-15 21:53                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:22                                   ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 15:22                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-16 20:42                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-16 22:26                                       ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-17  8:46                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-18  9:08                                         ` Agustin Martin
2008-07-15  1:38                             ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Don Armstrong
2008-07-15  2:20                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs Stefan Monnier
2008-07-15  6:43                                 ` Don Armstrong
2008-07-15  6:55                               ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs [Was: Emacs vista build failures] Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-15 10:15                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15 10:08                                 ` Debian's idiosyncratic complexification of Emacs David Kastrup
2008-07-16 14:09                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-16 16:34                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-16 19:43                               ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-16 19:59                                 ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-16 21:59                                 ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-21 21:26                                   ` Karl Fogel
2008-07-22  4:27                                     ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 14:21                                       ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-23  5:13                                       ` Michael Olson
2008-07-23 19:49                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-24 17:44                                           ` Manoj Srivastava
2008-07-24 20:20                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-22 14:22                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-14  1:42                     ` Emacs vista build failures Stefan Monnier
2008-07-14 17:38                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 17:38                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 19:56                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-15  8:28                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-15  7:54                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-15  8:52                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-15  8:57                         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-15 17:14                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-17 22:54                         ` Richard M Stallman [this message]
2008-07-17 23:48                           ` Miles Bader
2008-07-19 17:06                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20  4:08                               ` Miles Bader
2008-07-20 17:21                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20 20:22                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21  3:29                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 11:29                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 13:59                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-21 17:55                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 18:05                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 18:37                                               ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 18:49                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 19:30                                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-21 19:36                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21 22:54                                                       ` Evans Winner
2008-07-22  6:47                                                         ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22  8:16                                                         ` Jason Rumney
2008-07-22  8:26                                                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:46                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 13:58                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:34                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 17:22                                                             ` James Cloos
2008-07-22 17:31                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:11                                                             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-22 20:19                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 22:14                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 22:23                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  6:59                                                                   ` Stephen Leake
2008-07-23  8:20                                                                     ` Jason Rumney
2008-07-23 12:49                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  8:45                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-23  6:35                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 20:06                                                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-07-22 20:24                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:31                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 20:45                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 20:59                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 21:03                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 22:18                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-21 22:47                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-21 23:11                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 13:13                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 13:24                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 13:51                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:57                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:34                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:12                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:21                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 17:29                                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 23:55                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-22  3:41                                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-22 13:28                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:04                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:11                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:39                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:47                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 14:52                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:00                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 15:13                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 15:18                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 15:20                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:22                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 15:26                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 22:11                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-23  6:32                                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 18:52                                                               ` Sven Joachim
2008-07-22 19:12                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 19:33                                                                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2008-07-22 14:42                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-22 14:57                                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22 14:37                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-23  2:26                                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-23  3:40                                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-23  3:45                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  2:24                                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24  3:34                                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-24  2:44                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-24  3:29                                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-22 17:29                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 17:35                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 18:40                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 11:06                                                     ` Bastien
2008-07-23 16:56                                                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-23 17:42                                                     ` Johannes Weiner
2008-07-24  0:06                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24  5:25                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-24 22:04                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24 22:26                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:15                                                           ` Nick Roberts
2008-07-24 23:22                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  1:23                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  1:23                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-24 23:12                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-07-26  1:23                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:23                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  6:45                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  7:07                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-25  3:20                                                         ` Miles Bader
2008-07-26  1:24                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25 14:18                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  1:24                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:21                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-24  8:07                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-24 10:20                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-24 22:05                                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25 14:20                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-25 14:51                                                             ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 15:08                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 15:38                                                                 ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 15:55                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 16:08                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2008-07-25 16:19                                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-25 15:40                                                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-25 15:56                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 20:31                                                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26 20:56                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-25 19:21                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-26  6:03                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  1:24                                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26  6:19                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  8:03                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26  8:50                                                               ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26  9:22                                                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:50                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26  9:55                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 10:15                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 10:32                                                                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26 10:29                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26 11:11                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 12:33                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-26 14:26                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-26 21:34                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-26 23:52                                                                 ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-27 17:14                                                                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-28  0:05                                                                     ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-28 21:47                                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-29  1:00                                                                         ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-29  6:21                                                                           ` tomas
2008-07-29 15:21                                                                             ` Barry Fishman
2008-07-30  3:46                                                                               ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  3:47                                                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30  3:47                                                                           ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25  5:35                                                       ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 17:29                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 16:48                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-22  2:48                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 13:55                                       ` Miles Bader
2008-07-20 20:36                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-21  3:29                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21  6:14                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-21  9:04                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22  2:48                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20  6:35                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-20 22:05                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-20 22:05                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21  0:43                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-21 14:37                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-21 14:51                                       ` David Kastrup
2008-07-22  2:49                                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22 12:46                                           ` David Kastrup
2008-07-23  2:27                                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-22  8:02                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-07-22 16:31                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-18  0:05                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-19 17:05                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-19 21:34                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-23 18:17                               ` Karl Berry
2008-07-23 20:18                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-24  6:19                                   ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-07-25  5:35                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-25  7:08                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-07-21  5:14 christophe

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