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* Automatic bootstrap
@ 2008-06-18 13:17 Richard M Stallman
  2008-06-18 13:36 ` Jason Rumney
  2008-06-19  7:50 ` Paul Michael Reilly
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard M Stallman @ 2008-06-18 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

A week or so there was a discussion about the inconvenience of the
existence of `make bootstrap'.  I suggested that we create a source
file bootstrap.el whose compiled file, bootstrap.elc, would control
whether `make emacs' does a bootstrap or not.  We could also change
bootstrap.el trivially after installing any change which we think
makes it advisable for testers to bootstrap afresh.

I hope that this would eliminate the need for even developers to know
about `make boostrap'.

There was no reaction to this.  What do people think of it?




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-18 13:17 Automatic bootstrap Richard M Stallman
@ 2008-06-18 13:36 ` Jason Rumney
  2008-06-19 13:58   ` Stefan Monnier
  2008-06-20  6:46   ` Richard M Stallman
  2008-06-19  7:50 ` Paul Michael Reilly
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2008-06-18 13:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rms; +Cc: emacs-devel

Richard M Stallman wrote:
> A week or so there was a discussion about the inconvenience of the
> existence of `make bootstrap'.  I suggested that we create a source
> file bootstrap.el whose compiled file, bootstrap.elc, would control
> whether `make emacs' does a bootstrap or not.  We could also change
> bootstrap.el trivially after installing any change which we think
> makes it advisable for testers to bootstrap afresh.
>   

I don't think it will work, as developers who make changes that make it 
advisable to bootstrap would forget to change that file. Other 
developers might change it needlessly, causing testers with low end 
hardware unnecessary pain.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-18 13:17 Automatic bootstrap Richard M Stallman
  2008-06-18 13:36 ` Jason Rumney
@ 2008-06-19  7:50 ` Paul Michael Reilly
  2008-06-19 18:15   ` Richard M Stallman
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Paul Michael Reilly @ 2008-06-19  7:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Richard M Stallman wrote:
> A week or so there was a discussion about the inconvenience of the
> existence of `make bootstrap'.  I suggested that we create a source
> file bootstrap.el whose compiled file, bootstrap.elc, would control
> whether `make emacs' does a bootstrap or not.  We could also change
> bootstrap.el trivially after installing any change which we think
> makes it advisable for testers to bootstrap afresh.

What would be the content of bootstrap.el?

-pmr




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-18 13:36 ` Jason Rumney
@ 2008-06-19 13:58   ` Stefan Monnier
  2008-06-20  6:46   ` Richard M Stallman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2008-06-19 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: rms, emacs-devel

>> A week or so there was a discussion about the inconvenience of the
>> existence of `make bootstrap'.  I suggested that we create a source
>> file bootstrap.el whose compiled file, bootstrap.elc, would control
>> whether `make emacs' does a bootstrap or not.  We could also change
>> bootstrap.el trivially after installing any change which we think
>> makes it advisable for testers to bootstrap afresh.

> I don't think it will work, as developers who make changes that make it
> advisable to bootstrap would forget to change that file.  Other developers
> might change it needlessly, causing testers with low end hardware
> unnecessary pain.

I tend to agree.  BTW, I'm playing around right now with a slightly
different dependency structure to make "make" do the bootstrap
automatically, so that "make bootstrap" is turned into "make
bootstrap-clean; ./config.status; make".  Basically, we always build
both `emacs' and `bootstrap-emacs', where `bootstrap-emacs' is the
executable used to compile the preloaded files.  The code I have now
kinda works, but it has some downsides.  Also, it's tremendously
difficult to make this work efficiently in the sequential case (avoid
redundant dumps and byte-compilations) and in the parallel case as well
(e.g. avoid building `bootstrap-emacs' multiple times in parallel).


        Stefan




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-19  7:50 ` Paul Michael Reilly
@ 2008-06-19 18:15   ` Richard M Stallman
  2008-06-20  2:20     ` Miles Bader
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard M Stallman @ 2008-06-19 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Paul Michael Reilly; +Cc: emacs-devel

    What would be the content of bootstrap.el?

My proposal does not require it to contain anything,
so it could be empty.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-19 18:15   ` Richard M Stallman
@ 2008-06-20  2:20     ` Miles Bader
  2008-06-20 19:28       ` Richard M Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2008-06-20  2:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rms; +Cc: Paul Michael Reilly, emacs-devel

Richard M Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>     What would be the content of bootstrap.el?
>
> My proposal does not require it to contain anything,
> so it could be empty.

Why use the extension ".el" then?  It seems misleading.

-Miles

-- 
Un-American, adj. Wicked, intolerable, heathenish.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-18 13:36 ` Jason Rumney
  2008-06-19 13:58   ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2008-06-20  6:46   ` Richard M Stallman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard M Stallman @ 2008-06-20  6:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: emacs-devel

    > A week or so there was a discussion about the inconvenience of the
    > existence of `make bootstrap'.  I suggested that we create a source
    > file bootstrap.el whose compiled file, bootstrap.elc, would control
    > whether `make emacs' does a bootstrap or not.  We could also change
    > bootstrap.el trivially after installing any change which we think
    > makes it advisable for testers to bootstrap afresh.
    >   

    I don't think it will work, as developers who make changes that make it 
    advisable to bootstrap would forget to change that file.

Indeed, that might happen.  But is that a reason to reject the idea?
I don't think so.  Even if things are not perfect, they will be better.

     Other 
    developers might change it needlessly, causing testers with low end 
    hardware unnecessary pain.

I don't think that is likely to happen very often.
People have no reason to do this.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* Re: Automatic bootstrap
  2008-06-20  2:20     ` Miles Bader
@ 2008-06-20 19:28       ` Richard M Stallman
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard M Stallman @ 2008-06-20 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Miles Bader; +Cc: pmr, emacs-devel

    > My proposal does not require it to contain anything,
    > so it could be empty.

    Why use the extension ".el" then?  It seems misleading.

Because bootstrapping generates .elc files from all the .el files.
It will do this one just like the rest.
Making this a .el file is therefore natural.

Likewise, a release comes with the .elc files,
so it will come with this one, and that will prevent
bootstrapping when people build the release.







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-06-20 19:28 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-06-18 13:17 Automatic bootstrap Richard M Stallman
2008-06-18 13:36 ` Jason Rumney
2008-06-19 13:58   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-06-20  6:46   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-06-19  7:50 ` Paul Michael Reilly
2008-06-19 18:15   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-06-20  2:20     ` Miles Bader
2008-06-20 19:28       ` Richard M Stallman

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