From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Introducing 'unrecognized and 'ignored Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:54:12 -0500 Message-ID: References: <20071228174512.66834830BC9@snark.thyrsus.com> <17EA38DF-BCC1-4565-8510-5DD10DD667E3@mac.com> <20071229114551.GD9794@thyrsus.com> <20080102021907.GA15494@thyrsus.com> <200801020445.m024jWU2008538@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> <200801031805.m03I5SBf022748@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199512536 21012 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 05:55:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 05:55:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, esr@snark.thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, harsanyi@mac.com To: Dan Nicolaescu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 05 06:55:52 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JB20d-0007VH-Du for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 06:55:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JB20H-0002O3-0W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:55:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JB1z5-000267-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:54:15 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JB1z3-00025R-Az for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:54:14 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JB1z3-00025O-6C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:54:13 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JB1z3-0003ZA-3V; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:54:13 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JB1z2-00062N-94; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 00:54:12 -0500 In-reply-to: <200801031805.m03I5SBf022748@oogie-boogie.ics.uci.edu> (message from Dan Nicolaescu on Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:05:25 -0800) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86107 Archived-At: The disadvantages or using dired: Several of these are not persuasive (at least based on what you've said so far). - performance -- the difference is HUGE What is the connection between using dired and this slowdown? - clutter - dired has 4 top level menus that are mostly useless in the VC context That is not a real problem. It is easy for a variant of Dired to override them. - availability of simple key bindings: dired takes most single key bindings, forcing vc-dired to use the "v" prefix That is not a real problem. vc-dired could rebind some Dired keys, and still preserve most of the advantage of commonality with Dired. - future extensibility - VC systems are evolving at a fast pace nowadays, being able to easily make changes to accommodate new features is very important. I see no point paying the price today for a benefit that may only possibly develop. I'd rather pay that price if and when there is a real benefit to be gained. It won't be more work then than it is today. On the other hand, this could be a significant reason: - display flexibility -- it is much easier to do custom displays as needed by VC using ewocs than to retrofit it into dired. Just look at the PCL-CVS display and compare it with vc-dired. If custom displays are needed, that probably requires splitting off. Are custom displays needed? What would you want to use them for?