From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "CHANGED outside Customize" in frames customization group Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:42:59 -0500 Message-ID: References: <477616F3.8000003@gmx.at> <4777A62F.9080009@gmx.at> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199029441 12125 80.91.229.12 (30 Dec 2007 15:44:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:44:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: martin rudalics Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 30 16:44:14 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J90Kk-00055i-Gj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:44:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J90KP-0008LC-0G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:43:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J90Jc-0007MN-38 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:43:04 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J90JZ-0007Hh-64 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:43:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J90JY-0007HO-VK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:43:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J90JZ-0004MD-3V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:43:01 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J90JX-0001EX-W7; Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:43:00 -0500 In-reply-to: <4777A62F.9080009@gmx.at> (message from martin rudalics on Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:07:43 +0100) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85690 Archived-At: IIUC `custom-reevaluate-setting' can be used to set a variable after some environment value has been established as for `blink-cursor-mode'. The situation seems completely different for `default-frame-alist'. In what way is it different? The first reason is immediately visible when starting Emacs without your .emacs. The value is here: ((left-fringe) (right-fringe) (menu-bar-lines . 1) (tool-bar-lines . 1)) I know how to get rid of the -fringe entries. ISTR someone recently posted a patch that would affect the handling of fringes in `default-frame-alist'. Would they get rid of those? But I don't know what to do with the -line entries (which are BTW already there in Emacs 21). Why does anything need to be done with them? Could you just leave them alone? Or else change the numbers? Delete them in the customization buffer, save your settings, restart Emacs, and here they are again. That is arguably a bug, and maybe we should fix it. However, I do not see that this bug is so grave that we should conclude that `default-frame-alist' is unsuitable for use with Custom. A second reason is the function `modify-all-frames-parameters'. This function may set `default-frame-alist'. Customize `tool-bar-mode' or `fringe-mode' and you will change your `default-frame-alist' settings. I don't see a problem in that. Why do you think it is a problem? What aspect of it is the problem? If the problem is in some detail of the behavior of Custom when it is used on `default-frame-alist', maybe we can fix that detail. For instance, maybe those other commands should do somethingto inform Custom of the changes, so that it looks like `default-frame-alist' was set using Custom.