From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: un-deprecating CL Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <864phxjj03.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> <87hclx834d.fsf@red-bean.com> <86ps0jiwfm.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> <86k5qqgh9y.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190044478 13503 80.91.229.12 (17 Sep 2007 15:54:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:54:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, eliz@gnu.org, dto@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Joe Wells Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 17 17:54:34 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IXIvg-00076e-Qb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:54:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXIvf-0005kP-M5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:54:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IXIv8-0005J1-QC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IXIv8-0005I6-1Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IXIv7-0005Hp-Qk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:57 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IXIv7-00068S-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:57 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IXIuY-0002Dh-V2; Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:22 -0400 In-reply-to: <86k5qqgh9y.fsf@macs.hw.ac.uk> (message from Joe Wells on Mon, 17 Sep 2007 03:25:13 +0100) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79113 Archived-At: > destructuring-bind is ok to add, because it is simple and modular. By the way, destructuring-bind supports full Common Lisp style argument lists. I don't mind having some of this in that special construct, but I am not sure we should document all of the features. > I don't want to add CL argument lists, Just curious: Why not? It is added complexity that we don't need. To add them to standard Emacs Lisp functions would call for documenting them with great importance. To have the alternative constructs `function*' and `defun*' is kludgy. It is one thing to have `function*' and `defun*' in a compatibility package. It is quite another to give them legitimacy in Emacs Lisp. For example, typing ?C-h a union RET? in my running Emacs reveals union (from cl), gnus-union and gnus-sorted-union, ediff-union, and jbw-sorted-number-list-union (my own). And I wouldn't be surprised to find other packages (which I haven't loaded in this Emacs) that also implement union. The fact that Gnus and ediff want a union function is not enough reason to add one as an Emacs feature. In fact, there are four packages in Emacs that define a union function. I don't think that is enough to justify adding one _and documenting it_. It would take considerably more reason. (callf2 delete macro (cadr p)) (callf2 concat "[" (car return-value) "]") I find callf and callf2 extremely counterintuitive, and I would rather people write that code with setf.