nXML

nXML

[Richard Stallman]

We have papers for nXML.  Would someone like to install it?

Re: nXML

[Leo]

On 2007-09-13 17:29 +0100, Richard Stallman wrote:
> We have papers for nXML.  Would someone like to install it?

This is great news!!!

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=>             "(require 'cl) considered harmful" considered harmful
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Re: nXML

[Mark A. Hershberger]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> We have papers for nXML.  Would someone like to install it?

I don't see nXML in CVS yet.  Has anyone started work on this?  If not,
I can do it.

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Re: nXML

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Mark A. Hershberger wrote:
> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
>> We have papers for nXML.  Would someone like to install it?
> 
> I don't see nXML in CVS yet.  Has anyone started work on this?  If not,
> I can do it.

If you do then please ask on the nxml-mode list for patches too. I think 
there are some small patches out there.

Re: nXML

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> We have papers for nXML.  Would someone like to install it?
>> I don't see nXML in CVS yet.  Has anyone started work on this?  If not,
>> I can do it.
> If you do then please ask on the nxml-mode list for patches too. I think
> there are some small patches out there.

Let's first focus on getting it in the tree.


        Stefan

Re: nXML

[Richard Stallman]

    I don't see nXML in CVS yet.  Has anyone started work on this?  If not,
    I can do it.

Nobody else has spoken about doing it.  If nobody responds in 2 days,
please start.

Re: nXML

[Mark A. Hershberger]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     I don't see nXML in CVS yet.  Has anyone started work on this?  If not,
>     I can do it.
>
> Nobody else has spoken about doing it.  If nobody responds in 2 days,
> please start.

Will do.

A couple of basic questions.  Point me to any documentation if it is
available.

1. Is lisp/nxml the right place for it?  nXML is not a small package.
   If it were, I wouldn't hestitate to put it under lisp/textmodes.
   Since it is larger, I'm leaning towards creating lisp/nxml and
   putting it there.


2. Can I keep the directory layout as-is?  In the distribution, there
   are two subdirectories: char-name and schema.  schema contains a
   bunch of *.rnc files and one schema.xml file. char-names contains a
   single directory (unicode) with a number of *.el files.


Mark.

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The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious.
    -- Albert Einstein, The World As I See it

Re: nXML

[Stefan Monnier]

> A couple of basic questions.  Point me to any documentation if it is
> available.

> 1. Is lisp/nxml the right place for it?  nXML is not a small package.
>    If it were, I wouldn't hestitate to put it under lisp/textmodes.
>    Since it is larger, I'm leaning towards creating lisp/nxml and
>    putting it there.

That seems to make sense: it has 25 ELisp files, i.e. comparable to URL.

> 2. Can I keep the directory layout as-is?  In the distribution, there
>    are two subdirectories: char-name and schema.  schema contains a
>    bunch of *.rnc files and one schema.xml file. char-names contains a
>    single directory (unicode) with a number of *.el files.

I think `schema' would fit better in `etc/schema'.

As for `char-names/unicode', that would fit better in `etc/unicode' as well,
but in emacs-unicode we'll probably want to revisit this part because
I suspect that some of that info is already stored elsewhere.  In any case
all those char-name/unicode/*.el files should be auto-generated from
emacs/admin/unidata/Unicode.txt (maybe even on-the-fly ;-).


        Stefan

Re: nXML

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Stefan Monnier writes:

 > As for `char-names/unicode', that would fit better in `etc/unicode' as well,

My experience suggests you want to avoid the identifier "unicode" in
packages, either as a full name or as a component.  It's just going to
give annoying collisions when emacs-unicode gets merged, and the worst
part is that unicode is such basic and useful functionality that the
packaged stuff will have all kinds of clients, both in emacs proper
and in third party packages.

 > all those char-name/unicode/*.el files should be auto-generated from
 > emacs/admin/unidata/Unicode.txt (maybe even on-the-fly ;-).

XEmacs 21.5 does something similar, reading the mapping files for
charsets, at startup.  There's a measurable but not really painful
performance hit (750 ms on a 750MHz machine; I suspect it's I/O bound
so you won't get a proportional benefit from higher CPU speeds).
N.B. We have C support for this.

As long as you put it in C, I expect "measurable but not really
painful" perfomance hit for this too.

Re: nXML

[Richard Stallman]

    2. Can I keep the directory layout as-is?  In the distribution, there
       are two subdirectories: char-name and schema.  schema contains a
       bunch of *.rnc files and one schema.xml file.

This sounds like something we need to move to etc, for the sake of
installation coherence and simplicity.  We can call it etc/nxml.

						     char-names contains a
       single directory (unicode) with a number of *.el files.

How many files are in char-names/unicode?

What do those files do?  Is their job very specific to html?  In other
words, given that we add them to Emacs, would we want to make them a
more general separate facility?

If these become a new separate facility, they won't count as part of
nXML, and in particular you shouldn't count them when deciding
question 1.  But if they are specific to nXML and should remain in it,
then they do count as part of nXML for all purposes.

    1. Is lisp/nxml the right place for it?  nXML is not a small package.

How many .el files does nXML have?  If it is more than 12 files, they
should go in a new directory.  Otherwise they should go in textmodes.

Re: nXML

[Stefan Monnier]

> 						     char-names contains a
>        single directory (unicode) with a number of *.el files.

> How many files are in char-names/unicode?

> What do those files do?  Is their job very specific to html?  In other
> words, given that we add them to Emacs, would we want to make them a
> more general separate facility?

They have no code.  Only data that maps Unicode char names to their
(integer) code and that groups them into a few categories.

> If these become a new separate facility, they won't count as part of
> nXML, and in particular you shouldn't count them when deciding
> question 1.  But if they are specific to nXML and should remain in it,
> then they do count as part of nXML for all purposes.

Most likely they should be merged with the rest of the unicode data we use
in the emacs-unicode branch.  Also, they should be auto-generated from
emacs/admin/unidata/Unicode.txt rather than stored in the CVS.

>     1. Is lisp/nxml the right place for it?  nXML is not a small package.

> How many .el files does nXML have?  If it is more than 12 files, they
> should go in a new directory.  Otherwise they should go in textmodes.

About 25 source Elisp files.  Sounds like it deserves its own directory.


        Stefan

Re: nXML

[Richard Stallman]

    > What do those files do?  Is their job very specific to html?  In other
    > words, given that we add them to Emacs, would we want to make them a
    > more general separate facility?

    They have no code.  Only data that maps Unicode char names to their
    (integer) code and that groups them into a few categories.

Is there already something like this in Unicode-2?

    Most likely they should be merged with the rest of the unicode data we use
    in the emacs-unicode branch.  Also, they should be auto-generated from
    emacs/admin/unidata/Unicode.txt rather than stored in the CVS.

Exactly.  We might want this in Emacs, but it shouldn't be part of
nXML.

So, how many .el files are in nXML NOT counting these?

    About 25 source Elisp files.  Sounds like it deserves its own directory.

If that's 25 files not counting these Unicode files, then I agree.

Re: nXML

[Stefan Monnier]

> Is there already something like this in Unicode-2?

No idea.

>     About 25 source Elisp files.  Sounds like it deserves its own directory.
> If that's 25 files not counting these Unicode files, then I agree.

They are indeed 25 Elisp source files not counting the Unicode data files.


        Stefan

Re: nXML

[Richard Stallman]

    > Is there already something like this in Unicode-2?

    No idea.

I hoped someone who knows the answer would respond.

    They have no code.  Only data that maps Unicode char names to their
    (integer) code and that groups them into a few categories.

Could someone post a little sample that shows what this does?

Re: nXML

[Leo]

On 2007-09-21 23:32 +0100, Richard Stallman wrote:
>     > Is there already something like this in Unicode-2?
>
>     No idea.
>
> I hoped someone who knows the answer would respond.
>
>     They have no code.  Only data that maps Unicode char names to their
>     (integer) code and that groups them into a few categories.
>
> Could someone post a little sample that shows what this does?

Can we carry on with the discussion?

Shall we install nXML before any changes?

Cheers,
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Re: nXML

[Juri Linkov]

> On 2007-09-21 23:32 +0100, Richard Stallman wrote:
>>     > Is there already something like this in Unicode-2?
>>
>>     No idea.
>>
>> I hoped someone who knows the answer would respond.
>>
>>     They have no code.  Only data that maps Unicode char names to their
>>     (integer) code and that groups them into a few categories.
>>
>> Could someone post a little sample that shows what this does?
>
> Can we carry on with the discussion?
>
> Shall we install nXML before any changes?

Maybe it would be better to install nXML after merging the Unicode
branch to the trunk to avoid installing duplicate Unicode data files?

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: nXML

[Richard Stallman]

    >     They have no code.  Only data that maps Unicode char names to their
    >     (integer) code and that groups them into a few categories.
    >
    > Could someone post a little sample that shows what this does?

    Can we carry on with the discussion?

    Shall we install nXML before any changes?

No.  We do not want to install something that is done the wrong way.
You can install the rest of nXML if that is good.  Have people studied
it?

The thing to do with these Unicode things is to write down what job
they do, then talk with Kenichi Handa and figure out the right
way to do that job in Unicode-2 Emacs, then implement that.