From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: nospam@dev.null (Alexey Pustyntsev) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why emacs have not native language menu Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:38:35 +1100 Message-ID: References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <7056BAE9-002B-46B7-A60A-9EDE375392EE@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <86FA8DD5-B87E-4E64-90C8-04AA81B9469A@Web.DE> <873aze3qtf.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <87y7h53mjp.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <87d4yhbxiw.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <0D3378B6-0047-4E19-9F34-1047AED11F0A@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <6BCA330E-0E87-4C24-8F99-79E8BF6A1956@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185363052 29533 80.91.229.12 (25 Jul 2007 11:30:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:30:52 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 25 13:30:51 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IDf4s-0004ii-QZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:30:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDf4s-0007GV-4O for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:30:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IDf4e-0007GI-8v for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:30:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IDf4W-0007G5-Ud for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:30:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDf4W-0007G2-Rw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:30:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.242.74.155] (helo=sycore.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IDf4W-0001Kw-9E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 07:30:28 -0400 Original-Received: by sycore.org (Postfix, from userid 8) id EBA181EB6A; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:30:17 +0400 (MSD) Original-Received: from sycore.org (d3108.ys.dialup.sakhalin.ru [87.251.97.108]) by sycore.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3A520427 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:30:11 +0400 (MSD) Original-Received: from alexey by sycore.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IDeGJ-0005YN-M4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:38:35 +1100 User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 Emacs/22.0.95.1 In-Reply-To: <6BCA330E-0E87-4C24-8F99-79E8BF6A1956@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> (Jean-Christophe Helary's message of "Wed\, 25 Jul 2007 15\:55\:06 +0900") X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:46035 Archived-At: Jean-Christophe Helary writes: > No they don't. Code is just arbitrary strings that mean only what the > manual (in whatever language it is written) says they mean. I don't think I agree. They need to understand the code, needn't they? > > Confusing code (that looks like English words) and English is the > biggest mistake people make when learning computer languages. And it > seems like some members of this list have yet to make the difference > between emacs "function-name" that looks like English and plain > English. People created programming languages using a language spoken by human beings. I think, you see why. Historically, programming languages were based on English, which, in my opinion, is a good choice. > Very good. You know enough English to find your way in emacs. Reverse > question: is emacs the reason why you learned English ? Is emacs the > only activity that involves your using English ? Is programming so ? As a programmer I need English to work with information. I can hardly imagine my job without the use of English. In most cases, it's just safer to read an article/book in English than, as it's been correctly noted, be fooled by a bad translation that is (frequently) done by non-programmers. > > Can you imagine contexts where emacs can be used in a linguistically > "neutral" environment ? > > Can you imagine that using emacs in this linguistically "neutral" > environment would benefit from actual native linguistic information ? > > If you can't imagine that then you are right: you should focus on > other issues. I think creation of a "neutral environment" is a waste of time as we all can use the environment that's already been created. That is why I focus on other issues. You are right. > > > Jean-Christophe Helary > > ps: did it ever occur to you that some massively succesful > programming languages originated from non-English cultural/linguistic > environments ? That may suggest that English as a basis for a programming language is probably a better choice. -- Rgds Alexey Today is Sweetmorn, the 60th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3173