From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: propose adding Icicles to Emacs Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:38 -0400 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181807504 17679 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2007 07:51:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 07:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 14 09:51:43 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hyk7K-0003lK-43 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:51:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyk7J-0000cJ-Nc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:51:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyk5M-0008Mw-GG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:40 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyk5L-0008MR-OL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hyk5L-0008ML-Jk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hyk5L-0008MO-99 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:39 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hyk5K-0006bi-Qj; Thu, 14 Jun 2007 03:49:38 -0400 In-reply-to: X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72842 Archived-At: My suggestion is to proceed in two stages: 1) take Icicles (i.e. add it to Emacs) as a bundle now, offering it to general Emacs users as a separate, optional package with its current functionality and design, I have explained already why this is a bad idea. It is not an option, because it adds a lot of unmodular code. Icicles was implemented as an add-on, and to work with no changes at the C level. The right way to implement the features in Emacs is different. An alternative (to my two-stage proposal, plan A), which I do not prefer but which could also be workable for me, is for you not to add Icicles to Emacs, but to instead take some of its ideas and add them in your own manner to Emacs. In effect, you have declined to help with installing these features in the right way. I'm disappointed, but we can't make you do it. We'll just have to see whether other people decide to do it. There is another option: start with Icicles, rework it until its implementation is clean and modular, and install that. For some of the features, this may be easier. It too will wait for volunteers, though. You explained no such thing. You asked "how does it know what to call?", "is it the same command?", etc. You asked if every command couldn't be automatically converted to a multi-command. I responded to all of this in detail - you have not replied to any of that. That may have been true at the time you wrote it. It takes a long time for me to answer mail. My response to that message went out in the same transfer in which your premature rebuke came in.