* [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] @ 2006-07-24 18:22 Richard Stallman 2006-07-24 19:19 ` Chong Yidong 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2006-07-24 18:22 UTC (permalink / raw) [I sent this message a few weeks ago but did not get a response.] Would someone please DTRT and ack? ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> To: "Emacs-Pretest-Bug" <emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:21:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2 X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 emacs -Q M-x customize-variable ad-default-compilation-action Click mouse-2 on button Value Menu. The menu opens. Try to click mouse-2 on a menu item - the action is unrecognized. Mouse-2 can be used to click any links and buttons. However, if you use it to open the Value Menu, then you cannot also use it to choose an item in the menu. Mouse-2 should be usable for all actions, including choosing a menu item. More precisely, if a mouse button opens a menu, then it should also choose from it. If you don't want mouse-2 to choose from the menu, then it should not be able to open the menu either. I would prefer that mouse-2 be able to do both, but if it can do neither, then that is acceptable. In GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2006-03-20 on W2ONE X server distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --cflags -Id:/g/include' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1252 default-enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Custom Minor modes in effect: encoded-kbd-mode: t tooltip-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t utf-translate-cjk-mode: t line-number-mode: t Recent input: s s SPC s ? h e SPC c a n SPC c u s t o m i z e SPC s o m e t h i n g . M-q C-c C-c y e s <return> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> M-x c u s t o m i z e - a p r o o <backspace> <tab> <tab> <tab> - o p <tab> <return> . <return> <help-echo> <help-echo> <down-mouse-1> <mouse-1> q C-x 0 C-v <down-mouse-2> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <menu-bar> <help-menu> <re port-emacs-bug> Recent messages: Creating customization items ...96% Loading whitespace...done Creating customization items ...98% [9 times] Loading winner...done Creating customization items ...99% [6 times] Loading xt-mouse...done Creating customization items ...done Resetting customization items...done Creating customization setup...done To install your edits, invoke [State] and choose the Set operation _______________________________________________ emacs-pretest-bug mailing list emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-pretest-bug ------- End of forwarded message ------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-24 18:22 [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] Richard Stallman @ 2006-07-24 19:19 ` Chong Yidong 2006-07-24 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Chong Yidong @ 2006-07-24 19:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Subject: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2 > > emacs -Q > > M-x customize-variable ad-default-compilation-action > > Click mouse-2 on button Value Menu. The menu opens. Try to click > mouse-2 on a menu item - the action is unrecognized. On GNU/Linux, with either GTK or no X toolkit, the value menu goes away when I release the mouse button; selection is done by holding the mouse button and moving the cursor over the menu item. It works with both mouse-1 and mouse-2. Maybe this is Windows-specific behavior. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-24 19:19 ` Chong Yidong @ 2006-07-24 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-24 20:52 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-07-24 20:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > From: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> > Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:19:20 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > > Subject: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2 > > > > emacs -Q > > > > M-x customize-variable ad-default-compilation-action > > > > Click mouse-2 on button Value Menu. The menu opens. Try to click > > mouse-2 on a menu item - the action is unrecognized. > > On GNU/Linux, with either GTK or no X toolkit, the value menu goes > away when I release the mouse button; selection is done by holding the > mouse button and moving the cursor over the menu item. It works with > both mouse-1 and mouse-2. > > Maybe this is Windows-specific behavior. Yes, it is, and it's deliberate: as long as the menu is active, the Windows version ignores the middle and the right mouse clicks; you must use the left button only to select menu items. This behavior was introduced by this change: 2006-03-11 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> * w32fns.c (w32_wnd_proc): Ignore middle and extra button events if a menu is already active (the menubar_active flag is on). The reason was a much more annoying problem reported by Drew in this thread: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-03/msg00024.html Drew, I don't see any particular problem in asking Windows users to click the left button, even if they are in a menu dropped by the right button. Do you? (FWIW, I never select with the right button, even in other GUI applications.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] 2006-07-24 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-07-24 20:52 ` Drew Adams 2006-07-29 10:55 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-07-24 20:52 UTC (permalink / raw) > > emacs -Q > > > > M-x customize-variable ad-default-compilation-action > > > > Click mouse-2 on button Value Menu. The menu opens. Try to click > > mouse-2 on a menu item - the action is unrecognized. > > On GNU/Linux, with either GTK or no X toolkit, the value menu goes > away when I release the mouse button; selection is done by holding the > mouse button and moving the cursor over the menu item. It works with > both mouse-1 and mouse-2. > > Maybe this is Windows-specific behavior. Yes, it is, and it's deliberate: as long as the menu is active, the Windows version ignores the middle and the right mouse clicks; you must use the left button only to select menu items. This behavior was introduced by this change: 2006-03-11 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> * w32fns.c (w32_wnd_proc): Ignore middle and extra button events if a menu is already active (the menubar_active flag is on). The reason was a much more annoying problem reported by Drew in this thread: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-03/msg00024.html Drew, I don't see any particular problem in asking Windows users to click the left button, even if they are in a menu dropped by the right button. Do you? (FWIW, I never select with the right button, even in other GUI applications.) 1. It would be good if the behavior were the same on Windows as other platforms, if that were possible. 2. It would be good if either a) you could neither open the menu nor choose a menu item using mouse-2 or b) you could both open the menu and choose a menu item using mouse-2. It is the combination of being able to open the menu using mouse-2 but not being able to choose a menu item using mouse-2 that seems wrong. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-24 20:52 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-07-29 10:55 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-29 20:01 ` Luc Teirlinck 2006-07-31 4:38 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-07-29 10:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:52:39 -0700 > > This behavior was introduced by this change: > > 2006-03-11 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> > > * w32fns.c (w32_wnd_proc): Ignore middle and extra button events > if a menu is already active (the menubar_active flag is on). > > The reason was a much more annoying problem reported by Drew in this > thread: > > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2006-03/msg00024.html > > Drew, I don't see any particular problem in asking Windows users to > click the left button, even if they are in a menu dropped by the right > button. Do you? (FWIW, I never select with the right button, even in > other GUI applications.) > > 1. It would be good if the behavior were the same on Windows as other > platforms, if that were possible. Sorry, I don't know how to do that without introducing worse problems. If someone else knows, please speak up. > 2. It would be good if either a) you could neither open the menu nor choose > a menu item using mouse-2 or b) you could both open the menu and choose a > menu item using mouse-2. Richard, should I go ahead and remove the mouse-2 binding for widget-button-click? I could do that either for MS-Windows or for all platforms. Btw, why do we bind both buttons to the same action here? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-29 10:55 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-07-29 20:01 ` Luc Teirlinck 2006-07-31 4:38 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Luc Teirlinck @ 2006-07-29 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: rms, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii wrote: Richard, should I go ahead and remove the mouse-2 binding for widget-button-click? I could do that either for MS-Windows or for all platforms. There is no need to remove it on other platforms, because there is no bug on other platforms. Btw, why do we bind both buttons to the same action here? Because mouse-2 has this kind of functionality in other Emacs buffers and because people who have mouse-1-click-follows-link set to nil are used to use mouse-2 for this kind of functionality. Sincerely, Luc. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-29 10:55 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-29 20:01 ` Luc Teirlinck @ 2006-07-31 4:38 ` Richard Stallman 2006-07-31 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2006-07-31 4:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel Richard, should I go ahead and remove the mouse-2 binding for widget-button-click? I could do that either for MS-Windows or for all platforms. What would be the purpose of this? I did not follow the previous discussion. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-31 4:38 ` Richard Stallman @ 2006-07-31 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-31 22:17 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-07-31 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > CC: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 00:38:54 -0400 > > Richard, should I go ahead and remove the mouse-2 binding for > widget-button-click? I could do that either for MS-Windows or for all > platforms. > > What would be the purpose of this? I did not follow the previous > discussion. Right now, you can pop the value menu by clicking mouse-2, but you cannot select items from that menu with mouse-2, you need to use mouse-1 for that. (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-31 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-07-31 22:17 ` Richard Stallman 2006-08-01 3:19 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2006-07-31 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel Right now, you can pop the value menu by clicking mouse-2, but you cannot select items from that menu with mouse-2, you need to use mouse-1 for that. On GNU/Linux, probably with Lucid menus, I can select from the menu using any of the three mouse buttons. (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in Emacs on Windows. To make Mouse-2 stop working on buttons in Emacs would be an incompatible change that would affect all buttons, not just those that lead to menus. It would be a step for the worse. Please leave things alone. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] 2006-07-31 22:17 ` Richard Stallman @ 2006-08-01 3:19 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 3:33 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 3:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > CC: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:17:32 -0400 > > It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in Emacs on Windows. Actually, the code in w32menu.c is written to explicitly ignore clicks on any button but mouse-1 as long as a menu is open. This was done to solve a much more annoying bug on Windows, whereby, if you click mouse-2 while browsing a menu, Emacs would yank killed text after the menu pops down. > Please leave things alone. Done. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 3:19 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 3:33 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-01 7:10 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 3:33 UTC (permalink / raw) > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > > On GNU/Linux, probably with Lucid menus, I can select from > the menu using any of the three mouse buttons. > > (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) > > It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in Emacs on Windows. Actually, the code in w32menu.c is written to explicitly ignore clicks on any button but mouse-1 as long as a menu is open. This was done to solve a much more annoying bug on Windows, whereby, if you click mouse-2 while browsing a menu, Emacs would yank killed text after the menu pops down. > Please leave things alone. Done. What Richard described for the other platforms is exactly the behavior I requested when I filed this bug. It sounds to me like the fix for the more annoying bug (which I also reported, I believe) was not the right fix. Wouldn't the right fix have been to make mouse-2 select a menu item, just like on GNU/Linux? That would take care of both bugs, and bring Windows into line with the other platforms. IOW, "Please leave things alone" ... "Done" sounds like a quick cop-out, to me. I can't speak to hard it might be to fix this properly, so that Windows will DTRT, like GNU/Linux, but I can speak to what TRT would be for the user: exactly what Richard described. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 3:33 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 7:10 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 13:43 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 7:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:33:41 -0700 > > > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > > > > On GNU/Linux, probably with Lucid menus, I can select from > > the menu using any of the three mouse buttons. > > > > (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) > > > > It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in Emacs on Windows. > > What Richard described for the other platforms is exactly the behavior I > requested when I filed this bug. I'm not sure you interpret what Richard wrote correctly: I think he was talking about the value menu dropped when one presses on a button inside a Customize buffer, whereas you seem to interpret that as a more general statement about menus in general. See below about the latter. > It sounds to me like the fix for the more > annoying bug (which I also reported, I believe) was not the right fix. > Wouldn't the right fix have been to make mouse-2 select a menu item, just > like on GNU/Linux? That would take care of both bugs, and bring Windows into > line with the other platforms. Actually, what happens when you click mouse-2 in a menu on X depends on the toolkit, AFAICS. Xt and GTK indeed behave like you say, but Motif behaves like MS-Windows: mouse-2 is ignored in menus, and you need to use mouse-1. I looked in a couple of other GUI applications on Windows, and it looks like they ignore mouse-2 in menus. With buttons in Customize, it's different: there all toolkits I could try behave as Richard described, probably because Emacs itself handles the click. So, at least for menus in general, this doesn't sound like a behavior aspect that is consistent across platforms. > IOW, "Please leave things alone" ... "Done" sounds like a quick cop-out, to > me. Richard asked to do nothing, so I complied. > I can't speak to hard it might be to fix this properly, so that Windows will > DTRT, like GNU/Linux, but I can speak to what TRT would be for the user: > exactly what Richard described. Even though other GUI programs behave on Windows like we do now? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 7:10 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 13:43 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-01 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw) > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > > > > On GNU/Linux, probably with Lucid menus, I can select from > > the menu using any of the three mouse buttons. > > > > (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) > > > > It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in Emacs on Windows. > > What Richard described for the other platforms is exactly the > behavior I requested when I filed this bug. I'm not sure you interpret what Richard wrote correctly: I think he was talking about the value menu dropped when one presses on a button inside a Customize buffer, whereas you seem to interpret that as a more general statement about menus in general. I filed the bug about the value menu in Customize - see the Subject line. If all menus behaved the same everywhere in Emacs, and on all platforms, that would be even better, but that was not what I reported or requested. The other bug I reported, whose fix apparently caused this bug, was about the menu-bar menu, IIRC. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 13:43 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 15:19 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 14:25 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 06:43:08 -0700 > > > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > > > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > > > > > > On GNU/Linux, probably with Lucid menus, I can select from > > > the menu using any of the three mouse buttons. > > > > > > (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) > > > > > > It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in Emacs on Windows. > > > > What Richard described for the other platforms is exactly the > > behavior I requested when I filed this bug. > > I'm not sure you interpret what Richard wrote correctly: I think he > was talking about the value menu dropped when one presses on a button > inside a Customize buffer, whereas you seem to interpret that as a > more general statement about menus in general. > > I filed the bug about the value menu in Customize - see the Subject line. I know that. I was talking about interpretation of what Richard said, and your reaction to it. > If all menus behaved the same everywhere in Emacs, and on all platforms, > that would be even better, but that was not what I reported or requested. > > The other bug I reported, whose fix apparently caused this bug, was about > the menu-bar menu, IIRC. I'm confused: what are you saying here about how the problem at hand should be fixed? >From my perspective, mouse-2 in menus now performs on Windows as it does in other Windows GUI programs and as it works with some toolkits on X. mouse-2 on a button in Customize, which drops the value menu does _not_ behave as on X. Given these facts and the fact that mouse-2 behavior on Windows in both these types of menu msut be the same, what would you want that uniform behavior to be? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 15:19 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-01 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) > > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > > > From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> > > > > > > On GNU/Linux, probably with Lucid menus, I can select from > > > the menu using any of the three mouse buttons. > > > > > > (The latter part happens only on MS-Windows.) > > > > > > It sounds like a bug in the way menus work in > > > Emacs on Windows. > > > > What Richard described for the other platforms is exactly the > > behavior I requested when I filed this bug. I'm confused: what are you saying here about how the problem at hand should be fixed? I have nothing to say about how the problem should be fixed. I reported what the problem was, and I have an opinion about what the correct behavior could be, but I have no opinion on how to implement a fix. From my perspective, mouse-2 in menus now performs on Windows as it does in other Windows GUI programs and as it works with some toolkits on X. mouse-2 on a button in Customize, which drops the value menu does _not_ behave as on X. Given these facts and the fact that mouse-2 behavior on Windows in both these types of menu msut be the same, what would you want that uniform behavior to be? I thought I made that clear from the start, but let me try to be clearer. As I said in this bug report, I would prefer that mouse-2 be able to open the value menu if and only if mouse-2 can also select from that menu. The same should be true of any mouse button: it should open a menu if and only if it can also use the menu (select from it). I feel the same about other menus, but this report was only about the Customize value menu. If all kinds of menus cannot be fixed this way, then let's at least fix as many as we can. It doesn't make sense for a user to discover that s?he can open a menu with a mouse button but cannot select from that menu with the same button. That seems obvious, to me. I also feel that this general principle should apply to all platforms, if possible. If there are trade-offs that must be made, however - for example, accept inconsistency across platforms vs accept inconsistency within a platform, then we can discuss those in context. Speaking generally, my personal preference, though it is not a strong one, is that it is usually more important to have consistency within Emacs on a given platform than it is to have consistency across platforms - provided that within-platform consistency is a move toward better interaction and not a downgrade to a consistent but poorer UI. That proviso points to another general principle that I support: Avoid reducing quality in the name only of consistency, whether it be consistency within a platform or across platforms. IOW, a lowest-common-denominator that is based solely on the rationale of consistency is not the ideal, for me. We should try to move up toward consistency, not down to it. The reason I think that within-platform consistency is generally more important is that a user spends more time within Emacs on one platform: cross-platform use of Emacs is generally less than within-platform use. So, inconsistency across platforms will tend to perturb users less than inconsistency within a platform. Note: "generally", "tend to" - this is only a general heuristic; YMMV. If the choice were, say, to fix this completely in Windows, making mouse use consistent across mouse buttons, but such consistency were not possible now in some other platform for some reason, then I would still prefer that fix to the "fix" of bringing all platforms to the same state of inconsistency in the mouse behavior, in the name of cross-platform consistency. Ratchet consistency upward, only. As I said, however: 1) if trade-offs are needed, then let's discuss them, and 2) my general preference for intra-platform consistency is a) not strong and b) general, not absolute across all cases. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 15:19 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:19:44 -0700 > > From my perspective, mouse-2 in menus now performs on Windows as it > does in other Windows GUI programs and as it works with some toolkits > on X. mouse-2 on a button in Customize, which drops the value menu > does _not_ behave as on X. > > Given these facts and the fact that mouse-2 behavior on Windows in > both these types of menu msut be the same, what would you want that > uniform behavior to be? > > I thought I made that clear from the start, but let me try to be clearer. > > As I said in this bug report, I would prefer that mouse-2 be able to open > the value menu if and only if mouse-2 can also select from that menu. The > same should be true of any mouse button: it should open a menu if and only > if it can also use the menu (select from it). My preference is to unbind mouse-2 on buttons, at least for MS-Windows. This will make behavior on all platforms consistent, as you would like. But Richard asked not to make such a change, so my hands are tied. > I feel the same about other menus, but this report was only about the > Customize value menu. If all kinds of menus cannot be fixed this way, then > let's at least fix as many as we can. It doesn't make sense for a user to > discover that s?he can open a menu with a mouse button but cannot select > from that menu with the same button. That seems obvious, to me. Other menus already behave consistently, at least on Windows: you cannot drop a menu with mouse-2, and you cannot select a menu item with mouse-2. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 16:16 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-01 16:41 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) > As I said in this bug report, I would prefer that mouse-2 be > able to open the value menu if and only if mouse-2 can also select > from that menu. The same should be true of any mouse button: it > should open a menu if and only if it can also use the menu (select > from it). My preference is to unbind mouse-2 on buttons, at least for MS-Windows. This will make behavior on all platforms consistent, as you would like. But Richard asked not to make such a change, so my hands are tied. IIUC, Richard didn't say that you couldn't let mouse-2 select menu items in the value menu, in addition to opening the menu. My "if and only if", stated from the beginning, allows for this. The subject line complains, in fact, that mouse-2 does not let you select a menu item. My only complaint here is the inconsistency between letting you open the menu but not letting you select from it - with the same mouse button. > I feel the same about other menus, but this report was only about the > Customize value menu. If all kinds of menus cannot be fixed > this way, then let's at least fix as many as we can. It doesn't make > sense for a user to discover that s?he can open a menu with a mouse > button but cannot select from that menu with the same button. That > seems obvious, to me. Other menus already behave consistently, at least on Windows: you cannot drop a menu with mouse-2, and you cannot select a menu item with mouse-2. As I said, one thing at a time. It's more important to have local consistency (consistency for mouse buttons, within the same general action - in this case, using the value menu) than it is to have global consistency (in this case, consistency for mouse buttons across all menus). The idea seems simple to me: if someone uses mouse-2 on the value menu, so the menu opens, then s?he will expect to also be able to select a menu item with the same mouse button. Opening a menu and selecting an item in the menu are thought of as part of the same overall act. Don't you agree? We usually open menus to use them. No one thinks of switching mouse buttons mid-stream. To me, it's OK to not let mouse-2 do either: open or choose. And it's OK to let mouse-2 do both: open and choose. To me, it's not OK to do one but not the other. And, apparently, for Richard it's not OK to not let mouse-2 open. So,... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 16:41 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 16:58 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:16:01 -0700 > > My preference is to unbind mouse-2 on buttons, at least for > MS-Windows. This will make behavior on all platforms consistent, as > you would like. But Richard asked not to make such a change, so my > hands are tied. > > IIUC, Richard didn't say that you couldn't let mouse-2 select menu items in > the value menu, in addition to opening the menu. If we allow that, we will get inconsistent behavior with other menus, such as the one that's dropped from the menu bar, because where mouse events are handled, we don't know what flavor of menu is being processed. Allowing mouse-2 on the menu bar is not a good idea, IMO, hence my preference above. > To me, it's OK to not let mouse-2 do either: open or choose. And it's OK to > let mouse-2 do both: open and choose. To me, it's not OK to do one but not > the other. > > And, apparently, for Richard it's not OK to not let mouse-2 open. So,... And to me, it's not OK to let mouse-2 drop menu-bar menus. So,... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 16:41 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 16:58 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-01 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw) > IIUC, Richard didn't say that you couldn't let mouse-2 select > menu items in the value menu, in addition to opening the menu. If we allow that, we will get inconsistent behavior with other menus, such as the one that's dropped from the menu bar, because where mouse events are handled, we don't know what flavor of menu is being processed. Allowing mouse-2 on the menu bar is not a good idea, IMO, hence my preference above. So, you seem to be saying that we can't fix the value-menu bug without also letting mouse-2 do the same thing for the menu-bar. That would be fine - as I said, it would be good to fix both bugs in such a way that the behavior was the same. IOW, allowing mouse-2 to both open and choose from a menu-bar menu would be good, not bad, especially if that was also the behavior for the value menu. > To me, it's OK to not let mouse-2 do either: open or choose. > And it's OK to let mouse-2 do both: open and choose. To me, > it's not OK to do one but not the other. > > And, apparently, for Richard it's not OK to not let mouse-2 > open. So,... And to me, it's not OK to let mouse-2 drop menu-bar menus. So,... By "drop", do you mean open? If so, what is your reason? Please don't just state that the only possibility for that would be to return to the other bug I filed: mouse-2 mistakenly pasting when you tried to use it to choose a menu item. Is there a good reason that mouse-2 shouldn't both open and choose from a menu-bar menu? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 16:58 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-01 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-01 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:58:28 -0700 > > So, you seem to be saying that we can't fix the value-menu bug without also > letting mouse-2 do the same thing for the menu-bar. Yes. > And to me, it's not OK to let mouse-2 drop menu-bar menus. So,... > > By "drop", do you mean open? Yes. > If so, what is your reason? That GUI applications don't do that. So, unless we let mouse-2 drop menus from the menu bar on other platforms as well (personally, I think we shouldn't, certainly not at this time), I'd object to do that only on Windows. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms 2006-08-02 5:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: rms @ 2006-08-02 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel That GUI applications don't do that. So, unless we let mouse-2 drop menus from the menu bar on other platforms as well (personally, I think we shouldn't, certainly not at this time), I'd object to do that only on Windows. On my platform, all three mouse buttons work to activate a menu bar menu in Emacs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms @ 2006-08-02 5:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 6:17 ` David Kastrup 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com:Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 5:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > From: <rms@gnu.org> > CC: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:38:17 -0400 > > That GUI applications don't do that. So, unless we let mouse-2 drop > menus from the menu bar on other platforms as well (personally, I > think we shouldn't, certainly not at this time), I'd object to do that > only on Windows. > > On my platform, all three mouse buttons work to activate a menu bar menu > in Emacs. This depends on the toolkit, as I already wrote in this thread. (For example, Motif doesn't let mouse-2 or mouse-3 activate the menu-bar menu, AFAICS.) It probably also depends on mouse bindings in the window manager configuration files. I don't think Emacs does anything to bind mouse buttons on the menu bar. On MS-Windows, the window manager invokes menu-bar actions only for mouse-1. So letting only that button activate the value menu in a Customize buffer seems consistent to me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 5:29 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 6:17 ` David Kastrup 2006-08-02 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com:Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: David Kastrup @ 2006-08-02 6:17 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: rms, drew.adams, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > This depends on the toolkit, as I already wrote in this thread. (For > example, Motif doesn't let mouse-2 or mouse-3 activate the menu-bar > menu, AFAICS.) It probably also depends on mouse bindings in the > window manager configuration files. I don't think Emacs does anything > to bind mouse buttons on the menu bar. > > On MS-Windows, the window manager invokes menu-bar actions only for > mouse-1. So letting only that button activate the value menu in a > Customize buffer seems consistent to me. Are you talking about the value menu in the buffer (accessible by button) or the one in the menu bar? I could agree with the latter, but not with the former. Buttons have in all released versions of Emacs so far required mouse-2 presses on buttons (only customize buttons already had special code permitting mouse-1), so we should not disable this behavior in a single version leap. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 6:17 ` David Kastrup @ 2006-08-02 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 7:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: rms, drew.adams, emacs-devel > Cc: rms@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:17:52 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > > This depends on the toolkit, as I already wrote in this thread. (For > > example, Motif doesn't let mouse-2 or mouse-3 activate the menu-bar > > menu, AFAICS.) It probably also depends on mouse bindings in the > > window manager configuration files. I don't think Emacs does anything > > to bind mouse buttons on the menu bar. > > > > On MS-Windows, the window manager invokes menu-bar actions only for > > mouse-1. So letting only that button activate the value menu in a > > Customize buffer seems consistent to me. > > Are you talking about the value menu in the buffer (accessible by > button) or the one in the menu bar? I'm talking about both, but the value menu part is only about the buttons in the Customize buffers. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com:Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 5:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 6:17 ` David Kastrup @ 2006-08-02 16:16 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) > On my platform, all three mouse buttons work to activate a > menu bar menu in Emacs. This depends on the toolkit, as I already wrote in this thread. Let's not level toward the lowest common denominator, at least in this case. Let's get as many platforms (and toolkits) as we can to work reasonably and consistently. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 16:41 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 16:58 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms 2006-08-02 5:37 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: rms @ 2006-08-02 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > IIUC, Richard didn't say that you couldn't let mouse-2 select menu items in > the value menu, in addition to opening the menu. If we allow that, we will get inconsistent behavior with other menus, Why do you think so? such as the one that's dropped from the menu bar, because where mouse events are handled, we don't know what flavor of menu is being processed. Allowing mouse-2 on the menu bar is not a good idea, Why do you think so? IMO, hence my preference above. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms @ 2006-08-02 5:37 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 21:20 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 5:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > From: <rms@gnu.org> > CC: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:38:15 -0400 > > > IIUC, Richard didn't say that you couldn't let mouse-2 select menu items in > > the value menu, in addition to opening the menu. > > If we allow that, we will get inconsistent behavior with other menus, > > Why do you think so? Because on the menu bar, mouse-2 doesn't activate the menu on MS-Windows (and with some X toolkits, such as Motif). > such as the one that's dropped from the menu bar, because where mouse > events are handled, we don't know what flavor of menu is being > processed. > > Allowing mouse-2 on the menu bar is not a good idea, > > Why do you think so? Because many users don't expect that, I think, at least not on platforms whose window manager doesn't do that by default, or ever. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 5:37 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 16:16 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-02 21:20 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) Because on the menu bar, mouse-2 doesn't activate the menu on MS-Windows (and with some X toolkits, such as Motif). So, let the inconsistency appear there, where it won't hurt: If mouse-2 cannot open the menu-bar menu, then there is no harm in letting mouse-2 choose an item from the menu (if opened by mouse-1). In that case, the inconsistency 1) allows more functionality, not less, and 2) will not arise, in practice, because the inability occurs in the initiating action, _opening_ the menu, not in the followup action, choosing from it. IOW, it is better to 1) have mouse-2 be unable to open the (menu-bar) menu (even if it lets you select from it, once opened) than to 2) let mouse-2 open the (Customize value) menu but then not let you select from it. Users will fall into a trap with #2, but not with #1. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 5:37 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 21:20 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2006-08-02 21:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > If we allow that, we will get inconsistent behavior with other menus, > > Why do you think so? Because on the menu bar, mouse-2 doesn't activate the menu on MS-Windows (and with some X toolkits, such as Motif). No wonder you have confused me. Here you're saying "menus", but really you're talking about the behavior of the buttons in the menu bar. Those are comparable to the buttons in the buffer, in that both pop up another menu. Mouse-2 is the only way to click on a button in the buffer in Emacs 21. I do not want to change to making it not work at all. it will continue to activate these buttons. > Allowing mouse-2 on the menu bar is not a good idea, > > Why do you think so? Because many users don't expect that, I think, at least not on platforms whose window manager doesn't do that by default, or ever. Does Mouse-2 on the menu bar in those platforms do anything useful? I would think not. If not, then there is no reason not to make it activate menu bar menus (if that is possible; it may be impossible). For greatest consistency, we would want to make more mouse buttons do that, on whatever platforms we can. Even though, if a user clicks mouse-2 on a button to open the value menu, she will then need to use only mouse-1 to select items from that menu? That doesn't seem a good UI to me. I agree, it would be better to make _all_ menus allow mouse-2 as well, if we can. If that is impossible, users who use mouse-2 to click on the button will get this quirky result, just as they do in Emacs 21. It's better than the inconsistency you want. And it happens ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms 2006-08-02 5:13 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: rms @ 2006-08-02 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel My preference is to unbind mouse-2 on buttons, at least for MS-Windows. This will make behavior on all platforms consistent, as you would like. But Richard asked not to make such a change, so my hands are tied. Mouse-2 is the standard way to activate anything in the buffer in Emacs. Mouse-1 also works but with some complications. I don't think we should make anything that fails to activate with Mouse-2. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms @ 2006-08-02 5:13 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 5:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > From: <rms@gnu.org> > CC: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:38:13 -0400 > > My preference is to unbind mouse-2 on buttons, at least for > MS-Windows. This will make behavior on all platforms consistent, as > you would like. But Richard asked not to make such a change, so my > hands are tied. > > Mouse-2 is the standard way to activate anything in the buffer in Emacs. > Mouse-1 also works but with some complications. > I don't think we should make anything that fails to activate with Mouse-2. Even though, if a user clicks mouse-2 on a button to open the value menu, she will then need to use only mouse-1 to select items from that menu? That doesn't seem a good UI to me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* RE: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 5:13 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 16:16 ` Drew Adams 2006-08-02 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 16:16 UTC (permalink / raw) > Mouse-2 is the standard way to activate anything in the > buffer in Emacs. Mouse-1 also works but with some complications. > I don't think we should make anything that fails to activate > with Mouse-2. Even though, if a user clicks mouse-2 on a button to open the value menu, she will then need to use only mouse-1 to select items from that menu? That doesn't seem a good UI to me. My bug report was precisely to eliminate that inconsistency and annoyance. But, as I stated, I would prefer that consistency be achieved by upgrading, not downgrading: mouse-2 should both open the value menu and let you choose an item from it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams @ 2006-08-02 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel > From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:16:29 -0700 > > > Mouse-2 is the standard way to activate anything in the > > buffer in Emacs. Mouse-1 also works but with some complications. > > I don't think we should make anything that fails to activate > > with Mouse-2. > > Even though, if a user clicks mouse-2 on a button to open the value > menu, she will then need to use only mouse-1 to select items from that > menu? That doesn't seem a good UI to me. > > My bug report was precisely to eliminate that inconsistency and annoyance. > But, as I stated, I would prefer that consistency be achieved by upgrading, > not downgrading: mouse-2 should both open the value menu and let you choose > an item from it. Drew, you've told this about umpteen times already, and I'm sure we all understood you the first time. Please try to refrain from repeating the same text again and again, this thread is long as it is already. TIA ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-01 13:43 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-01 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms 2006-08-02 5:34 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 35+ messages in thread From: rms @ 2006-08-02 3:38 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel Is it really true that different menus inside Emacs handle mouse clicks differently on Windows? That is surprising -- isn't it the same code handling all of them? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
* Re: [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms @ 2006-08-02 5:34 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 35+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2006-08-02 5:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: drew.adams, emacs-devel > From: <rms@gnu.org> > Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:38:08 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Is it really true that different menus inside Emacs handle mouse > clicks differently on Windows? No, the menus behave the same. The problem is _not_ with the menu, it's with how one _activates_ the menu. In the menu bar, we don't bind mouse buttons to actions; rather, the window manager returns us events that cause us to activate the menu; the MS-Windows window manager does that only for mouse-1 clicks. By contrast, in a Customize buffer _we_ bind mouse-1 and mouse-2 on the "Value Menu" button to drop down a menu, so mouse-2 also works there. > That is surprising -- isn't it the same code handling all of them? Once the menu is activated, it is the same code, yes. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 35+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-08-02 21:20 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 35+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-07-24 18:22 [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] Richard Stallman 2006-07-24 19:19 ` Chong Yidong 2006-07-24 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-24 20:52 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-07-29 10:55 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognize mouse-2] Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-29 20:01 ` Luc Teirlinck 2006-07-31 4:38 ` Richard Stallman 2006-07-31 16:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-07-31 22:17 ` Richard Stallman 2006-08-01 3:19 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 3:33 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn't recognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-01 7:10 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 13:43 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-01 14:25 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 15:19 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-01 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-01 16:41 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-01 16:58 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-01 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 3:38 ` rms 2006-08-02 5:29 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 6:17 ` David Kastrup 2006-08-02 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com:Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 2006-08-02 5:37 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customizevaluemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 21:20 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Richard Stallman 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 2006-08-02 5:13 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 16:16 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize valuemenudoesn'trecognizemouse-2] Drew Adams 2006-08-02 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2006-08-02 3:38 ` [drew.adams@oracle.com: Customize value menu doesn'trecognizemouse-2] rms 2006-08-02 5:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
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