From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:13:21 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87r70l2xza.fsf@vh213602.truman.edu> <200607170354.k6H3slOj025701@jane.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1153181844 17058 80.91.229.2 (18 Jul 2006 00:17:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:17:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, belanger@truman.edu, karl@freefriends.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 18 02:17:21 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2dGv-0003yq-Gd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 02:17:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2dGt-0007zH-Ep for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:17:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2dDH-0006Rn-Qr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:13:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1G2dDH-0006R5-A6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:13:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G2dDG-0006Qx-Td for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:13:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1G2dG2-0007c7-VR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:16:15 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1G2dDF-000160-Me; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:13:22 -0400 Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-reply-to: <200607170354.k6H3slOj025701@jane.dms.auburn.edu> (message from Luc Teirlinck on Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:54:47 -0500 (CDT)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:57229 Archived-At: Of course, Emacs users must also be able to learn how to use Emacs Info. Emacs Info is too close to the standalone Info to justify two separate manuals, especially since many people may want to learn how to use both readers and we should not force them to read two manuals most of whose contents just duplicate each other. Absolutely right. The Info reader has no menu bar and no Emacs style header line. Scroll bars and mice do not seem to work with it. I did not know that. We should make it support X (I will add that to our task list). In the mean time, this means that the Info tutorial must not assume a mouse. Nonetheless, some of the suggested changes that Drew made are good ones. The topic of invisible text is confusing, and some of the commands could be done in a different order.