defface doc misses default and some more errors

defface doc misses default and some more errors

[Lennart Borgman]

The docstring for defface does not mention (default ...)

And I believe that

"DISPLAY can either be the symbol t, which will match all frames, or an
alist of the form ((REQ ITEM...)...).  For the DISPLAY to match a
FRAME, the REQ property of the frame must match one of the ITEM."

should be something like

"DISPLAY can either be the symbol t, which will match all frames, or an
alist of the form ((REQ ITEM...)...).  For the DISPLAY to match a
FRAME, the REQ property of the frame must match one of the ITEM for every
member of the alist."

I also am annoyed by the difficulty to get the possible values of
"window-system". If you look at the doc string for window-system (there is a
link in defface doc string) you just get the current value. In (defface
button ...) in button.el there is a (type pc). Is there such a value?
window-system for m "pc" is w32.

Re: defface doc misses default and some more errors

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Lennart Borgman" <lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se>
> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:01:28 +0100
> 
> should be something like
> 
>                                                For the DISPLAY to match a
> FRAME, the REQ property of the frame must match one of the ITEM for every
> member of the alist."                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The marked part is grammatically wrong English, I think.

> I also am annoyed by the difficulty to get the possible values of
> "window-system".

??? Type "C-h i d m elisp RET", then "i window-system RET", and you
should see the full list of the possible values of that variable.

> in button.el there is a (type pc). Is there such a value?

`pc' is the value of window-system in the MS-DOS port of Emacs.

Re: defface doc misses default and some more errors

[Lennart Borgman]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>


> >                                                For the DISPLAY to match
a
> > FRAME, the REQ property of the frame must match one of the ITEM for
every
> > member of the alist."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> The marked part is grammatically wrong English, I think.

Thanks, you are right. I just copied that part. Hm. I just read the
semantics so to say. What about the semantic error which I was pointing out?

> > I also am annoyed by the difficulty to get the possible values of
> > "window-system".
>
> "i window-system RET", and you
> should see the full list of the possible values of that variable.

Thanks again, that is good. I never noticed "i" in Info and did not look at
all there in this case. But I believe there should be a link to this in the
defface doc string. Is not that possible?

BTW I think the dividing between Info and the doc strings is a bit
problematic.

Re: defface doc misses default and some more errors

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: "Lennart Borgman" <lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se>
> Cc: <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:06:18 +0100
> 
> Thanks, you are right. I just copied that part. Hm. I just read the
> semantics so to say. What about the semantic error which I was pointing out?

The previous wording was inaccurate, but yours is also inaccurate (or
perhaps simply unclear).  I think we need a better wording.

> BTW I think the dividing between Info and the doc strings is a bit
> problematic.

Why?  I think the philosophy is that the doc strings are a short
version of the documentation, and the manual is the full version.  I
don't see any problem in such subdivision.

Mention darwin as a possible value for system-type?

[Nick Roberts]

 > ??? Type "C-h i d m elisp RET", then "i window-system RET", and you
 > should see the full list of the possible values of that variable.

On a related note (or possibly unrelated), if you type "C-h i d m elisp RET",
then "i system-type RET", shouldn't you see the full list of the possible
values of that variable. I see no mention of darwin. Is this deliberate?

Nick

Re: Mention darwin as a possible value for system-type?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz>
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:23:50 +1300
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> On a related note (or possibly unrelated), if you type "C-h i d m elisp RET",
> then "i system-type RET", shouldn't you see the full list of the possible
> values of that variable. I see no mention of darwin. Is this deliberate?

If `darwin' is the value on some supported system, its omission cannot
be deliberate, I think.

Re: Mention darwin as a possible value for system-type?

[David Kastrup]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz>
>> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:23:50 +1300
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> 
>> On a related note (or possibly unrelated), if you type "C-h i d m
>> elisp RET", then "i system-type RET", shouldn't you see the full
>> list of the possible values of that variable. I see no mention of
>> darwin. Is this deliberate?
>
> If `darwin' is the value on some supported system, its omission
> cannot be deliberate, I think.

Secondguessing will get us nowhere: by that we just cement possible
oversights permanently.  Policy by accident, "somebody might have
thought something when doing that", is a recipe for disaster in the
long run.

AFAICS, Darwin is free software (while MacOSX isn't).  So even if we
try to be semi-"politically correct" by deliberately making using
unfree software more complicated with buggy documentation, more likely
window-system rather than system-type should be affected.

If there was a rationale, I'd prefer hearing instead of guessing it.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Mention darwin as a possible value for system-type?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:10:54 +0100
> 
> > If `darwin' is the value on some supported system, its omission
> > cannot be deliberate, I think.
> 
> Secondguessing will get us nowhere: by that we just cement possible
> oversights permanently.  Policy by accident, "somebody might have
> thought something when doing that", is a recipe for disaster in the
> long run.
> 
> AFAICS, Darwin is free software (while MacOSX isn't).  So even if we
> try to be semi-"politically correct" by deliberately making using
> unfree software more complicated with buggy documentation, more likely
> window-system rather than system-type should be affected.

Once again David Kastrup pounces on someone guided by nothing else but
his own misunderstandings: all I meant to say was that the omission of
`darwin' is a bug that should be fixed.

Re: Mention darwin as a possible value for system-type?

[David Kastrup]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Cc: Nick Roberts <nickrob@snap.net.nz>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
>> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:10:54 +0100
>> 
>> > If `darwin' is the value on some supported system, its omission
>> > cannot be deliberate, I think.
>> 
>> Secondguessing will get us nowhere: by that we just cement possible
>> oversights permanently.  Policy by accident, "somebody might have
>> thought something when doing that", is a recipe for disaster in the
>> long run.
>> 
>> AFAICS, Darwin is free software (while MacOSX isn't).  So even if
>> we try to be semi-"politically correct" by deliberately making
>> using unfree software more complicated with buggy documentation,
>> more likely window-system rather than system-type should be
>> affected.
>
> Once again David Kastrup pounces on someone guided by nothing else
> but his own misunderstandings: all I meant to say was that the
> omission of `darwin' is a bug that should be fixed.

I apparently mixed up "deliberate" with some synonymon of "arbitrary".
Sorry for the confusion.  It might have helped if your reply had
included a suggested course of action.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: defface doc misses default and some more errors

[Richard Stallman]

    I also am annoyed by the difficulty to get the possible values of
    "window-system". If you look at the doc string for window-system (there is a
    link in defface doc string) you just get the current value. In (defface
    button ...) in button.el there is a (type pc). Is there such a value?
    window-system for m "pc" is w32.

It would be good to list the values of window-system into the defvar.
Would people who know about other possible values please add them?