From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Eliminating "changed in Emacs outside of Customize" Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:14:19 -0500 Message-ID: References: <00ac01c5096a$cfaf6950$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107458547 12040 80.91.229.6 (3 Feb 2005 19:22:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:22:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, abraham@dina.kvl.dk, drew.adams@oracle.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 03 20:22:20 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CwmYW-0003Fb-00 for ; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:22:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cwmlt-0000T6-Is for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:36:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CwmgU-0005mq-0c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:30:34 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CwmgN-0005k1-Ah for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:30:28 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CwmgM-0005f1-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:30:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CwmTb-0004R5-I8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:17:15 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1CwmQl-0003K6-5W; Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:14:19 -0500 Original-To: "Lennart Borgman" In-reply-to: <00ac01c5096a$cfaf6950$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> (lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:32832 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:32832 > I still have the specific question of _what the problem is_ with the > scenario that you and Stefan (and I) described: a setq (in .emacs or a > library) executed after custom-set-variables. Yes, a setq changes the > current value so that it is no longer the `saved-value' - but so what? The novice user changes a value in customize, saves and restarts Emacs. Then he find that the value is still the same. If he sees that Customize starts out saying the value has been set in the current session, won't that be enough to guide him? After all, he knows he has not set the variable yet IN Customize. Won't that be enough, usually, for the user to deduce it was set outside Customize? His conclusion is that there is something wrong with Emacs. If he realizes it was set outside Customize, I think he won't reach this conclusion. I still believe it would be good to have custom-file executed after .emacs by default. In that case customize could warn for "rouge" custom variable states. I don't understand what it means to "have custom-file executed after .emacs".