From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Paul Wallington Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VC-SVN problem Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:50:41 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20040508013158.GB7312@fornax.collapsar.net> <878yg4yppi.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <20040508022659.GC7312@fornax.collapsar.net> <87d65exxnl.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1084262430 24780 80.91.224.253 (11 May 2004 08:00:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 08:00:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue May 11 10:00:24 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BNSBc-0001Kr-00 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:00:24 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BNSBb-0006YC-00 for ; Tue, 11 May 2004 10:00:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BNSAN-0001fL-PN for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 11 May 2004 03:59:07 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BNSA0-0001eO-OL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2004 03:58:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.34) id 1BNS9U-0001WB-6H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2004 03:58:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [217.44.221.99] (helo=indigo.shootybangbang.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BNS4O-0000Rf-6p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2004 03:52:56 -0400 Original-Received: from jpw by indigo.shootybangbang.com with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1BNS2D-00019c-00; Tue, 11 May 2004 08:50:41 +0100 Original-To: Jim Blandy In-reply-to: (message from Jim Blandy on 10 May 2004 16:33:41 -0500) X-Mailer: Norman X-Attribution: jpw X-Face: R(_z-rF:grdKO.*u`n); p.i$Eiz=h^CO5eDYv"4:K@#\HN09*Ykx}}B{kF/KH}%f_o^Wp List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:23117 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:23117 > > Just checking: do you mean (eval-when-compile (require 'cl)) ? > > > > (The cl package defines a compiler macro for `list*', and the elisp > > manual's coding conventions say not to load cl at runtime.) > > I've gotta be missing something obvious: I don't think so. > What do you do if your package actually uses functions from CL, not > just macros? Then CL must be loaded at runtime. Well, some functions in the cl library have corresponding compiler macros and you can use those without loading cl at runtime in addition to its normal macros. Also, by default the byte compiler issues "function from cl package called at runtime" warnings now so inadvertent use at runtime is easy to detect. I guess whether to rewrite an existing package to avoid runtime use of cl or to follow those conventions when developing a new package is up to the maintainers of that package. > Are such packages simply unsuitable for inclusion in the Emacs > distribution? Yes, I believe so. Earlier in this thread RMS said that it's not acceptable for any package in Emacs to require cl at runtime: http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2004-05/msg00506.html