From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reducing mouse-dependency In Emacs. Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:53:14 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200308100342.h7A3gXV19877@raven.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1060606787 10606 80.91.224.253 (11 Aug 2003 12:59:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:59:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: teirllm@dms.auburn.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 11 14:59:45 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19mCH3-0001l7-00 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:59:45 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19mCOJ-0004Lb-00 for ; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:07:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19mCGw-0002qs-0y for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:59:38 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19mCGV-0002ny-An for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:59:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19mCFy-0002WF-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:59:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19mCC7-0000E5-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:54:39 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.20) id 19mCAk-0003xw-L8; Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:53:14 -0400 Original-To: Eli Zaretskii In-reply-to: (message from Eli Zaretskii on 10 Aug 2003 08:08:02 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:15878 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:15878 Rather than introducing new properties, I'd think it's better to have an option to display the text defined thru mouse-face and help-echo when point is anywhere inside the text covered by those properties. I agree that it would be better to use the existing properties in different ways, if we can work out a way to do so. The idea would be that `help-echo' could rely on the fact that the user is busy using the mouse, `short-help' on the fact that he is using the keyboard (if it makes a difference) and `long-help' would provide more thorough documentation, in a more limited number of situations. `long-help' seems superfluous; we already have the doc string for that. I think it is ok to define `short-help' for this purpose, when the default handling seems suboptimal; but we should try to provide a default that is good enough that few commands need to use `short-help'. Two other functions `next-help-echo-region' and `previous-help-echo-region' would carry one forward and backward to the beginning of successive regions with non-nil `help-echo' properties. (They are bound to C-tab and C-M-tab in the implementation below.) I agree that this feature could be useful. However, it won't be terribly useful if people have to remember commands for it. It will be much more useful if we can find a self-evident way to invoke it. That may not be possible, but let's try. Can people try looking for one?