From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: S-backspace Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:22 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20030527141845.GA13165@gnu.org> <200305290146.h4T1kBV18272@eel.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054314815 7646 80.91.224.249 (30 May 2003 17:13:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:13:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: miles@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri May 30 19:13:27 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19LnQG-0001up-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 19:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19LnfV-00080C-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 19:27:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LnQi-0004Wv-MS for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:36 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LnQW-0004Wd-IQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LnQV-0004WO-8n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:23 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LnQV-0004WI-1q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:23 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.20) id 19LnQU-0001s6-HB; Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:22 -0400 Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-reply-to: <200305290146.h4T1kBV18272@eel.dms.auburn.edu> (message from Luc Teirlinck on Wed, 28 May 2003 20:46:11 -0500 (CDT)) Original-cc: rv@gnu.org Original-cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-cc: alex@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14497 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14497 The binding itself is clearly not dangerous, once Emacs even gets to see the binding the danger is over. The danger consists in encouraging people to use it without properly warning them. That is true. But there are Emacs help commands that will display the binding and won't display any additional information. For instance, C-h w backward-kill-sexp says backward-kill-sexp is on , , ESC , ESC C-M-backspace seems to be a danger under XFree86, and you've said that C-M-delete might also be one with some window managers (though not with mine). Meanwhile, C-M-delete causes a reboot on the console, but C-M-backspace doesn't. It doesn't matter anyways, because it is part of the structure of the commands that move around sexprs. The first time I killed my X-Server I simply wanted to 'kill the s-expression before point'. I didn't read in the documentation that this command exists and that it is bound to `C-M-'; it's just the logical binding when you are familiar with `M-C-a', `M-C-f' etc. I guess nothing we might do can close that pitfall. But in addition to people who deduce this command ought to exist, there must be others who read about it. Since this command is not often used, I think the danger exceeds the utility. I am coming to think that the best thing to do is to delete both bindings, and let real Emacs wizards who want a key binding for this command make one themselves. All in all, the situation created by XFree86 and Linux is a confusing one. Given that XFree86 turns off the Linux handling of C-M-delete as a command to reboot, shouldn't it use C-M-delete for killing the X server, rather than C-M-backspace? That way, one key would be used by the system for two similar purposes depending on the situation, and the other key would always be available for other programs.